Back in Time to Old Japan

[Shinpachi]

You know, now I can't find the color pictures that I'm sure I saw "proving" the crosses where green. Could this be a case of me "projecting" on to black and white photographs the oft repeated green crosses "legend". I'm tired and this is the end of the night shift. I will take this up at another time.

Yes, let's discuss it at another time.
I also have to find out my old records.

The crosses were dark green. Against a white color, they appear black.

We also discussed possibility of the phenomenon but other greens like grasses on the shiny ground was green. Please let me discuss it at another opportunity. It was endless.

 

[Shinpachi]

...In my travels in Asia, I discovered a lot of people had little conception (or concern) of the crimes of the Nazi's. But they sure do know about the Japanese crimes.

You often emphasize the Japanese crime in China.
Very interesting.

 

[syscom3]

You often emphasize the Japanese crime in China. Very interesting.

You misunderstand me. I was pointing out that for many people in Asia, the Nazi war crimes were committed on the other side of the planet, and it didn't involve anyone from Asia/Pacific. The immediacy for them was what happened to them by whom. And it is also that way in the west, where the biggest war crimes in Asia are not as readily understood as compared to war crimes inflicted upon their [western countries] civilians and POW's.

As for the color of those crosses on the surrender planes, also consider that color film was still in its infancy and the film didn't have the capability to bring out all the vivid colors as we are used to today.

 

[Shinpachi]

The biggest war crime in Asia?

 

[Shinpachi]

When the World War 2 was over, the Japanese in China feared the retaliation and punishment by the Chinese. They had no other ways but accepting it.

Chiang Kai-shek, leader of Republic of China then, said "One should hate not the person but his vice" and allowed all Japanese there coming home without further condemnation. Japanese thanked for his and his people's generousity and repented what they had done in China from the bottom of their hearts.

If it had been an incident in Asia hundreds years before, that could have been a good story with happy ending.

However, the time changed and the communist China took power. As they had not been a member of the allies, they began to condemn the Japanese about what they had done in China. That was O.K. because they were also Chinese.

In September 1972, Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka visited Beijing and apologized about the past officially. Diplomatic relationships were recovered again.

To show apology, Japan has been cooperating with China (both Republic and People's Republic) since the end of the war not only to solve the history problems but the economic assistances positively and sincerely.

If it was a Chinese who still blames the Japanese, that would be acceptable because our efforts for them might not be enough yet but why you, syscom3?

Sorry but it is hard for me to understand your intention at the moment.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

If it was a Chinese who still blames the Japanese, that would be acceptable because our efforts for them might not be enough yet but why you, syscom3?

Sorry but it is hard for me to understand your intention at the moment.

I think you have to understand how a lot of westerners (at least those from the Allied nations) feel about this situation. Many of them feel that Japan has not fully accepted what it has done in the past. They also feel that Japan tries to "change the history books" per say. Please understand that I am not speaking for myself here...

You also have to understand that it was just the Chinese and the Koreans that were treated badly by the Japanese. American, British, Australian, Dutch (just to name a few here...) were treated very harshly and in some cases extremely inhumane. To become a prisoner of war to the Japanese was not a very nice place to be. This has not been completely forgotten.

I don't think anyone here (including syscom) blames the Japanese people of today. Nor should they, they had nothing to do with what happened in the past. But what did happen in the past, can not simply be forgotten, nor will it simply go away because a modern govt. says "Sorry".

 

[syscom3]

Shinpachi, the war has been over for 65 years. There's nothing you need to apologize for. The people who did those evil deeds are long gone.

 

[tail end charlie]

I think you have to understand how a lot of westerners (at least those from the Allied nations) feel about this situation. Many of them feel that Japan has not fully accepted what it has done in the past. They also feel that Japan tries to "change the history books" per say. Please understand that I am not speaking for myself here...
.

Adler

Your details say you are in Germany so I presume you are. My experience of working in Germany was that sooner or later all German people will want to broach the subject of the second world war to appologise, it is
like a passage in the friendship/relationship . It happened so many times in Germany you can tell when you have this convo that you are perceived as a friend. I worked for 6 months in Japan and it was entirely different. Firstly, being british most of the Japanese dont know that the British and Japanese faught in WW2, this would amuse my father no end who sank two of their boats (a sub and a small freighter).

I can only recollect 1 conversation with a particulary drunken Japanese who demended to know why I had bombed Hiroshima! I could have said I am British and it was the Americans or I could have said The British had an observer on the enola gay in an act of joint responsibility. What I did say is "why did you rape Nanking (now known as Nanjing) the young Japanese clearly didnt know what on earth I was talking about. His boss led him away merely saying "We are sorry"

All this is mere conversation (I have met a few idiots in Germany too) but later I worked in China, In China the absolute hatred of the Japanese was so obvious you could feel it. Bearing in mind the growing power of China this is a problem we will all have to deal with. Japan should make amends for what they did in China ASAP.

For the record the Chinese could quote chapter and verse about the Opium wars but were completely unaware of any British military action against the Japanese in WW2, all the Chinese I met thought Britain was neutral.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Jjust tossing this idea out, even though it has been stated that roller shutters were not invented until the 50's, it could possibly be based on what was on the shop before the roller shutter was installed.

That's a pretty interesting picture, thanks for sharing.

 

[mikewint]

been looking for this picture for a few days, i took this in vietnam on the road to Hue in about 1966. the swastika does not mean the same thing to everyone around the world. i know nothing about this shopkeeper or his political leanings but things can just happen without implying anything. even in vietnam this gave me quite a start

 

[vikingBerserker]

I think you're dead on. In the US everytime the Klu Klux (dumba**) Klan marches they are always carrying crosses, but the average person in the US does not associate the cross with their hatred.

 

[Shinpachi]

Adler, please read my last post well before you comment quickly.
I only described the passage of an event in the Japanese viewpoint which even the Japanese goverment does not try to teach as it always brings troublesome arguments.

In addition, the situation in Korea during 1910-1945 of the Japanese occupation must be discussed separately.
Occupation was taken place being based on the treaty though it was unfair one forced to them in one way.

syscom3.
The war was of course over as many as 65 years ago but your comments sounded not ending yet in your mind.
Sorry if it was my misunderstanding.

***********
Thanks guys for your so many precious comments!

 

[parsifal]

arent those "asian" swastikas a mirror reverse of the Nazi symbols?

The concept of "aryans" relates to an obscure tribe in northern India. How on earth the nazis equated that tribe with world dominance is beyond me....then again what, if anything makes sense in Nazi folklore????

 

[vikingBerserker]

Not just the Asian, the American Indians were reversed as well (Apache IIRC) but their blanets still took a hit during and after the war.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Adler

Your details say you are in Germany so I presume you are.

I am an American who lives in Germany...

That is however not relevant to this discussion. As I have already stated that I was not speaking for myself in that post. I have also stated that the modern Japanese (and the Germans as well) have nothing to apologize for.

Adler, please read my last post well before you comment quickly.
I only described the passage of an event in the Japanese viewpoint which even the Japanese goverment does not try to teach as it always brings troublesome arguments.

In addition, the situation in Korea during 1910-1945 of the Japanese occupation must be discussed separately.
Occupation was taken place being based on the treaty though it was unfair one forced to them in one way.

syscom3.
The war was of course over as many as 65 years ago but your comments sounded not ending yet in your mind.
Sorry if it was my misunderstanding.

***********
Thanks guys for your so many precious comments!

You might want to read my post as well. It was not anything derogatory toward you...

 

[mikewint]

old injuries and hurts die but very slowly. i had two uncles who fought in WWII one in the navy whose ship took kamikazi hits and another, a marine in the pacific. both hated the japanese until the day they died and would never buy anything "made in japan". my family is of german extraction grandpa had to change our last name a move to stop the violent harrassment during the war. i make german WWII aircraft. all have swastikas on the tail if grandpa were alive he'd smash everyone to bits.
some vets have returned to vietnam for "closure" i could never ever do that

 

[Shinpachi]

OK. Let's take it easy, guys!

Another kitchenware shop nearby.
They are handling various knives......Wow

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

OK. Let's take it easy, guys!

There is no reason to be offended. Just as you wish people to understand your view, I think they just want you to understand their view.

 

[Shinpachi]

Your win, Adler but -
Where is your comment about my latest photos
I took them all begging pardons from the owners

Thanks!

 

[tail end charlie]

Your win, Adler but -
Where is your comment about my latest photos
I took them all begging pardons from the owners

Thanks!

Shinpachi

I saw those all over Japan, most of them dont have an edge on them. The samurai sword is a fantastic piece of metallurgy. I saw one being made by the traditional methods and it was fascinating. Maybe a sword on display is a symbol of a good knife. I visited Sumitomos head offices in Tokyo which had an ancient sword on display it was beautiful craftmanship.