**** DONE: 1/72 Supermarine Seagull V - Heavy Hitters II GB

[A4K]

Nice work Mike, and good point Wojtek!

 

[parsifal]

Rember, i am painting an aircraft from a particulalr moment in time....Around septembe 1941. ive never seen a colour photo from that period, but ther are some B&W images of this aircraft 9and others in the 24 ordered, that seem to show some kind of off white allover finish. it could be silver, but i do think it more likley to be a pale off-white or light grey....just not the same greay as mine i dont think.

Has anyone got any ideas......

 

[B-17engineer]

Looks white on top but not sure if its two toned or the shadow makes the bottom look darker?


I think this ones Australian, was from the First ANARE expedition to Heard Island around 47-48. I know their aircraft were yellow but this one looks too light to be Yellow.

Sh** after further digging I think its yellow, ah well.

 

[B-17engineer]

Anyway if you didn't have this I found info on A2-4

A2-4-Seagull V-Delivered 21/02/36. 1AD (21.2.36), 101 Flt (9.3.36), 1AD (17.3.36), 101 Flt (3.4.36), 101 Flt became 5Sq 20.4.36, HMAS Sydney (20.4.37), Richmond (8.8.37), HMAS Sydney (26.10.37), struck side of a ship 28.2.38, sank in harbour and salvaged Jervis Bay 22.3.38, 2AD (3.4.38 repairs), 9Sq (8.8.39), 10Sq (12.9.39), forcelanded Rushcutters Bay, Sydney, 22.12.39. Coded YQ-P with 9Sqn RAAF 1943. After World War 2, became VH-ALB 14/04/60 to 09/03/72. In the 1960's it flew joyflights from Seaford in Port Phillip Bay. Aircraft was damaged in a forced landing and sold in England. On display at RAF Museum at Hendon, UK.

from : ADF Serials - RAAF A2 Supermarine Seagull V / Walrus

/12/35 or 2/1/36 First flight
21/2/36 Received from overseas at 1AD Laverton
9/3/36 101 Flt Point Cook, Vic
17/3/36 1 AD
3/4/36 Arrived 101 Flt, Richmond from Laverton
14/4/36 Failure of lower tail skid stern post fitting
20/4/36 101 Flt redesignated 5 Sqn
28/1/37 Hull defect reported
10/2/37 – 17/2/37 Participated in RAN exercise in Jervis Bay
20/4/37 Allocated to HMAS SYDNEY. Landed Richmond, NSW and departed for Darwin, NT.
26/4/37 Darwin. Assisting Dr Donald Thompson (Anthropologist) in survey of Arnhem Land
5/6/37 Arrived Richmond from Darwin
5/7/37 Tasked to assist CSR with an East Coast Fish Survey (Hobart to Townsville)
10/7/37 Hull pierced by jack, Pt Cook
15/7/37 Hull pierced by buoy, Mallacoota
8/8/37 Returned to Richmond
22/8/37 Embarked HMAS SYDNEY
8/10/37 Disembarked to Richmond
26/10/37 Embarked HMAS SYDNEY
27/1/38 Embarked HMAS SYDNEY
28/2/38 Struck side of HMAS SYDNEY and sank in Jervis Bay
22/3/38 Salvaged from Jervis Bay,
25/3/38 Disembarked to Richmond
29/3/38 2 AD Richmond for repair
3/4/38 Arrived 2 AD
3/3/39 Swung on landing
8/8/39 9 Sqn
12/9/39 10 Sqn, Rathmines,
22/12/39 Forced landing in Rushcutters Bay, Sydney when roof hatch flew off into propeller. (Flt Lt Campbell)
23/1/40 Allotted Seaplane Flight Point Cook
13/2/40 Stbd float damaged when acft landed ashore without lowering undercarriage. Acft had been operating from water (Pilot P/O McMahon)
19/2/40 Flap locking device failed causing damage to propeller
22/2/40 2 AD Richmond for repair
4/3/40 Arrived Seaplane Training Flight Rathmines [Formed 1.3.40]
21/5/40 9 Sqn
11/7/40 Embarked HMAS PERTH
23/9/40 Cockpit, wings and tailplane damaged when port 4 inch HA gun fired on a forward bearing during Admiral's inspection. (Flight records indicate that this may have actually occurred to A2-18 [q.v.])
26/9/40 Landed to 9 Sqn for repair - replaced by A2-17 24.9.40 (but see A2-18)
2/10/40 At Qantas for repair
4/11/40 Serving at 9 Sqn
3/12/40 – 9/12/40 Attached to 1 CF Laverton for drogue target towing
16/1/41 At 2AD
21/1/41 Forced landing in Gunnamatta Bay, Port Hacking, NSW, after flying wire fitting failed during target towing. (Pilot P/O Mason)
10/2/41 Aircraft bounced during take-off and damaged port wing and mainplane
26/11/41 To 2AD for 180 hourly inspection Arrived 27/11
No date 9 Sqn
17/6/42 Arrived 2 AD from 9 Sqn and transferred to Qantas Rose Bay for overhaul
10/11/42 9 Sqn
11/1/43 SHQ Rathmines
6/2/43 Arrived 9 Sqn Bowen
7/43 Coded 'YQ-P'
7/8/43 Ground looped to port at Cairns, Qld after flight from Mornington Island and damaged port spar, aileron and float. Flown to Bowen for repair but this could not be completed there
2/12/43 2 FBRD
12/1/44 Qantas for repair
26/7/45 3 OTU via 2 FBRD
14/12/45 2 FBRD for storage with Pegasus 2M2 No 16664
3/2/46 Reported still at 3 OUT
22/3/46 Storage at 2 AD Schofields
25/4/46 Damaged by hailstorm
13/5/46 At Maintenance Sqn Rathmines
14/8/46 Airframe offered by CDC for sale by tender by 6.9.46. Aircraft with 2 CRD, RAAF Richmond, NSW, reported as 'fully serviceable'.Total hours 1446.00
15/8/46 Maintenance Sqn Rathmines ex ASR Sqn
Later History
3/10/46 Sold by CDC to McIlree Motors, Sydney for £600
10/10/46 Issued to purchaser
? Registration VH-ALB reserved
13/9/50 Reservation VH-ALB cancelled and aircraft stored by McIlree
/59 Sold to P Gibbes, , H. O'Hara and A Whiter and prepared for CofA by Lawrence Engineering and Sales, Camden, NSW
17/3/60 test flight
14/4/60 Registered VH-ALB for private use but later registered for aerial work and operated by Amphair (Amphibious Air Carter) P/L of Toorak, Vic with seven passenger seats. Flew joy flights from Seaford, Port Philip Bay, Vic
9/62 Sold to R.W. Shute for £5,000 to be operated as Barrier Reef Flying Boat Service from Mackay. Qld.
17/3/63 Last regular flight – placed in storage at Mackay
29/10/63 Flown to Bankstown. NSW and offered for sale
5/64 Bought by a group of local business men S.R. Johnson, H. Treloar and J.L. Nicholls.
2/10/64 Damaged when ground looped during conversion training
30/1/66 Forced landing at Terrigal, NSW, with engine trouble. Later flew back to Camden.
10/68 Damaged in wind storm at Camden
By 7/69 had moved to Bankstown for restoration with a view to competing in the London to Sydney Air Race for which it was allocated the Race Number '48'
9/7/69 Test flight for CofA renewal
26/11/69 Regular flying recommenced
8/12/69 Departed Sydney for Singapore and reached Dili, Timor by 17/12 when it was held up by lack of appropriate fuel. Obviously some damage occurred because after repairs were completed and correct fuel obtained, departed for Bankstown on 30/12/69, arriving on 8/1/70
27/1/70 Suffered engine failure shortly after take-off at Taree, NSW but stbd wheel struck a stump in long grass during forced landing and undercarriage, fuselage, stbd float and wing were damaged. Aircraft was dismantled and returned to Bankstown (Pilot Neville M Parnell was uninjured)
9/3/72 Registration cancelled at owners request
5/72 Exchanged with RAF Museum for Spitfire XIV TE384 and AUD5,000
1/73 – 4/73 flown to UK by RAAF (Richmond to Darwin) and RAF (Darwin, Nadi, Nuku'alofa' Hawaii, California and Gander)
11/79 Restoration complete and aircraft placed on display in RAF Museum, Hendon as A2-4

ADF Serials - Seagull V Walrus

EDIT: Even if you are not doing 2-4 they have the other Serials there. 2-1, 2-2 etc.

Here's 2-2 and 2-1 if its any help

 

[parsifal]

Thanks Harrison, but i do know that a/c. by 47-48, that a/c had been seconded out of the RAAF and given to the commonwealth department of antarctic territories. it had been intended to us it to undertake some aerial survey work, but the aircraft was wrecked on the ground in a terrible storm just after her arrival. The aircraft laay there until 1970, when it was recovered. It was put into storage at point cook until 1983, and was then rebuilt painfully until 2003 when it was finally put on exhibition at the point Cook museum.

the aircraft in your picture i can tell you is finished in an overall yellow scheme. The aircraft is only one of four Seagull/Walruses left. one is in Point Cook, one is at hendon, one is in Stockhom....i dont know where the fourth copy is. it fair comment to describe the walrus as rare as rocking horse Sh*t

the one at hendon is A2-4 (the aircraft im doing). It was rescued from private ownership (where it was being flogged to death) and returned to england for rebuilding but only after crashing and suffering a lot of damage. The scheme depicted at hendon is not of the period that applied in 1941 when the aircraft was on the HMAS Perth

 

[parsifal]

2-2 is very useful, and ive never seen that shot before. that definately does not look silver to me, but then i am loathe to make a call on the actual colour. Who knows colour identificaton. The a/c you are showing is the same basic scheme a the one I want to do...

 

[B-17engineer]

Check the above post....I edited it

Aircraft listed are 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 2-5

and here's 2-7,2-8

They all appear silver

 

[Wurger]

A2-4 after a crash while servicing with cruiser HMAS SYDNEY and "immersed in the sea" at Jervis Bay in March 1938, and that she had struck the side of the cruiser on February 28, three weeks earlier . The good news is that she was repaired and serviceable again with No 9 Squadron on August 8, 1939, and embarked on HMAS PERTH on July 11, 1940. Sometime in that month, either this aircraft, or its predecessor, was damaged on HMAS PERTH, with a wing being crumpled by blast on its catapult during an anti-aircaft firing exercise. In any event A2-4 was replaced on PERTH on the 26th of September that same year.

 

[Gnomey]

Looks great so far!

 

[parsifal]

certainly the prwar shots appear to be silver, but the picture wurger posted is from wartime, immediately before the time period I am depicting. Im not very good at determining colour from B&W shading. But at a guess, I think A2-4 in the shot of her in the drink is an off white or pale grey.

Which is reinforced by the following colour shot of the same a/c as im trying to do. A modellers interprtation admittedly, but its my understanding that was the early war finishes applied to Seagull Vs of the RAAF fleet co-operation units

My colour is too dark by half. I thgink i need to do a very light respray, with maybe 50 gray/50 white mixed, and thinned down by about 30-40%

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Michael, I've just been digging into my Geoffrey Pentland books on RAAF Camouflage and Markings and I believe that aluminium dope is the way to go. I have a picture of A2-5 which is definitely this colour but has an anomaly with the roundels. I've also a colour picture of A2-14 which is definitely aluminium dope. Both pics I will scan and post later in today.

I've also found that the Commonwealth directive for camouflaging the Seagulls in dark sea grey and dark slate grey disruptive upper surface pattern with sky blue undersides was not issued until 31st July 1942. So aluminium dope is the go.

Hope this helps and I'll be back later with them pics.

 

[parsifal]

how would you recommend a recovery at this point...I would think using an aluminium but lightly applied. Even if aluminium its should have a greyish tinge to it.... I think.

Please do post those colour schemes. I think I need help here....

 

[Wurger]

I understand you. But there is a nice shot of HAMS Perth taken in 1941 and its part. I would like to pay you attention that the light greay ( white? ) colour used for her camo is quite nice visible. However the Seagull is of very dark colour. In my opinion if the plane would be of the matt light grey ( white ) paint it was seen in the same way the one of the camo of the ship. Taking the sunlight into consideration I would say the plane had to be of either dark camo scheme or just silver ( aluminium ) that can be seen as a dark one from a long distance on a sunny day. Unless I'm wrong. Where is Terry ....???

 

[Matt308]

For what it is worth, I sypathize with the engine installation. I almost tossed this kit like a frisbee I was so frustrated. Finally gave up and didn't have the heart to do the antenna aerials. Yours looks great. Keep at it.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/st...l-1-72nd-supermarine-walrus-mk-1-a-15759.html

 

[parsifal]

Thanks matt, I glanced at your build. FWIW I think yours was a very good rendition. ive not really had too much drama with this build, except now for the colour...

 

[parsifal]

Yes Wotjek it does look like a darker camo.....if it was light sea grey it would appear like the lighter parts of the ship. But does silver come looking like black in distance B&W? I didnt know that...

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Here we go Michael. I've also added the small amount of wording that goes with the 2nd and third picture.

Reference: RAAF Camouflage Markings 1939-45 Vol 1 2 – Geoffrey Pantland

 

[parsifal]

Thanks a lot for that exxellent advice...everyone, but Vic in particular. Aluminium it is then. Ive already purchased some from the local hobby shop.....The colouration is markedly greay I notice, but metalasized as well.

I think a simple top coat will be okay. i intend to apply the metallic finished with about 20% thinner so that the paintwork is not too thick. Any advice?

Also the underside markings are interesting.....I will need to make up some additional decals as the kit supplied decals dont have any underside decals. Roundels should be no problem....ive got heaps of them, but the numbers are unique and i only have one set....the ones that come with the kit....

 

[parsifal]

Does anyone have close upo details of the launch ramp and dolly that wee used on the Leander Class. I was thinking of finishing this job with the aircraft sitting sitting on the dolly, as if ready for launch. ive got some photos, but not enough to undertake a scratch build of this magnitude. I have to make a decision now, because it will affect whether i have a "gear up" or "gear down" configuration........

The gantry is one part, but the dolly is something Ive not really got much detail on ...

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Michael,
Just sent you an email with a bunch of photos of bits of the launch ranch and some of the dolly mechanism. Hope I have your right email, if you do not get them tonight, PM me your current email and I'll resend them.