DONE: F4U-1A of Lt. Bill Case of VMF-214, Group Build...

[lesofprimus]

OK, so does anyone know what the .50cal ammo loadout was for the F4U-1A's as far as the colored tips of the rounds??? Was every 4th a red tipped tracer???

The shell casing was brass and I got those painted.... The regular rounds' tips were copper? and the tracer rounds were red???

 

[Micdrow]

Hi Dan, this clip came from a 1945 weapons manual for tracers and the color tips. I beleive for aircraft it was usually every 4 or 5 round was a tracer round but that usually depended on the pilots request also. Im not as good with weapons but maybe some one will have more.

 

[lesofprimus]

Thanks Paul, I found lots of info concerning the colored tips, but not the actual belting of the different rounds.... 4th or 5th rounds will work...

 

[Catch22]

I think it's every 3rd round Dan, I don't remember where but I've read that a few times. But I've also read it's up to the individual pilot and what his preferences were.

 

[Micdrow]

I think it's every 3rd round Dan, I don't remember where but I've read that a few times. But I've also read it's up to the individual pilot and what his preferences were.

Could be but I really think its your choice Dan as it was pilots choice back then. I may have a picture or two laying around that shows some tracer layouts but not for sure. I will look and see if I can find one.

 

[Sweb]

It was strictly pilot's choice. Tracers began burning in the barrels and would erode the rifling after X-number of rounds. They really weren't used for much more than indicating the approximate trajectory of the ball rounds. Tracers lost weight by the very act of burning away and therefore were lighter than standard ball rounds and followed and higher trajectory. So, depending upon the range of the target pilots placed their tracer rounds above the intended target. Many pilots used the tracers rounds only to indicate the last 50 rounds left in the guns. Burned out barrel rifling meant the standard ball trajectory would be off and depending upon the extent of rifling damage the trajectories could be all over the place. Because the Corsair pilot had the option of selectively arming his guns (one solenoid switch per gun off the Master) he could reserve certain guns if trajectories began to scatter due to heavy firing. Some pilots did this as a routine "for the trip home". This meant he could load up with tracers as Japanese planes were easily torched by them and then switch to other guns if/when burn-out occurred. This was, again, the explanation given by Marine pilot feedback in Boone Guyton's book Whistling Death.

I spoke with my Pop about this subject and he stated that his sighting preference of the guns in the P-47 was a grouping in an eight foot diameter circle at 1200 yards with every 10th round a tracer, IIRC. He limited his tracers to the outer-most guns only. This was after he developed a good feel for aerial gunnery with the Jug and experienced the effects of tracers on the barrels. The Jug did not have the option of selecting certain guns. The Master switch armed all eight gun solenoids.

 

[Micdrow]

Dan I would say use what you think you would as a Navy Seal. I cant seem to find the picture Im looking for. 3 seems excessive. I do have a picture of a hell dive and it looks like the tracers are every 5th for a tail gunner. I do remember reading it was pilots choice but with as many aircraft out there on certain fields there had to be some set of standard also. If Im remembering right most of the mustangs that Ive seen at the EAA had them done every 4th to 5th round.

 

[Airframes]

An 'International' unofficial standard, even today with ground weapons, is normally one tracer every 4 to 5 rounds of ball or other load.
But, I'd go with what Joe (Sweb) says, as that appears to be typical, certaily for the ETO anyway. Some fighter pilots I've spoken with in the past only had tracer loaded as a 5, maximum 10 round group, near the end of the belts, to indicate they had, say, 15 or 20 rounds per gun of ball remaining. When they saw a continuous tracer stream, they knew they were almost out of ammo.
I'm not familiar with loads in the PTO, but were API, AP and SAPI also used? If so, I think I have most of the tip colours for those filed somewhere if you need them.

 

[lesofprimus]

I'm not familiar with loads in the PTO, but were API, AP and SAPI also used? If so, I think I have most of the tip colours for those filed somewhere if you need them.

Im not sure if they were using those type of rounds during late 1943 Terry.... This afternoon, I will be gettting some work done, and this will be one of the things I get squared away.... I was planning on doing every 4th round red for tracer, witht he rest copper tipped.....

 

[Catch22]

Dan, look what I found! From Osprey's Corsair Aces of WWII:

I assume when they say VMF-124 they mean 214.

 

[Airframes]

Great find Cory. So Dan, the incendiary was probably SAPI, but you'd have to check this. There were more than one form of marking for this - some were the same as AP, a black tip, but with a yellow band below, some were a mid blue tip. The tracer was normally the copper colour of the bullet, with the extreme tip in red. BTW, those above, the colour extended approximately three quarters the way down the bullet head.

 

[lesofprimus]

I knew about Bolts extra-curricular activites, but nothing was done with the info he procured until the Second Tour of the Blacksheep was about 1/2 way over....

That info is great tho Cory, as I can now go with 3 different types of rounds, Incendiary (blue), Tracer (red) and AP (black).... Anyone else have other info to go with beofre I paint these belts???

 

[Catch22]

At least it tells you the order of the rounds.

 

[lesofprimus]

Yea big 10-4 man... I found some info that corroborates it too, so we know that part is good.... Now just gotta figure out the tip colors....

Blue red black blue red black blue red black???

 

[Catch22]

Hmm, let me go looking, I'm on lunch now. Even if I wasn't, I'd still go looking hehe.

 

[Catch22]

AHA!

PT Boat Browning Machine Gun .50 Caliber M2 Aircraft Dimensions

It's a site with info on PT boat .50s it looks like. It doesn't give loadouts for aircraft I don't think, but you already know that, you just needed the colours. And seeing as the picture is of US bullets, I'd say we're good.

 

[lesofprimus]

Dude, we are way good now, thanks for diggin that up Cory... I looked and looked......

 

[Catch22]

No worries Dan.

 

[Wayne Little]

Great find Cory, well done mate!

 

[lesofprimus]

Alright, work in progress..... Went and tipped all the rounds.... Havent done anything with the chutes yet as Im waiting on a package from Terry to spice them up a bit.....