Vic Balshaw
Major General
Sounding good Michael and will look forward to the pics.
**** DONE: 1/72 Lockheed P-38H Lightning - Heavy Hitters II GB
- Thread starter parsifal
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A4K
Brigadier General
Yep, me too.
fubar57
General
Coming along nicely Parsifal.
Geo
Geo
Night Fighter Nut
Master Sergeant
Your doing fine Michael. Just take your time. 
- Thread starter
- #65
parsifal
Colonel
Ive spent the week working steadily on the model. Ive got the main paint scheme down, the props painted and the red tail markings on the thing. Its one of the best paint jobs ive ever done, but it has a fatal flaw that I didnt realize until it was all over.....the paint colour for the upper surface is quite wrong. Ive painted it olive green, because thats the colour I thought was appropriate. Its not. There appears to be some sort of brown colouration from the box art and other finished versions of this model that ive seen on the net. The box instructions are hopeless....refers to a humbrol colour cose which no-one can tell me what the colour is, and anyway is enamel, which i dont want to use.
Some renditions of this model do show a distinct green colouration in the finish, but not as green as what I have. most are this mix of what appears to be brown and olive. One professional model maker explained it as trying to simulate fading, which I dont know is true or not.
The question now is what do i do. I have a really well applied paint scheme, that is sort of right, but not right....if I go back and respray, I will have to do the whole thing again and Im not at all confident I will get as good a result as I have. Its very frustrating. If i can avoid it, I would like to avoid a full respray
The other detail ive noticed is that the change from the top coat "green" to the underside "blue grey" whilst having a definite point of definition, does still tend to fade in and fade out to each colour. ive not quite captured that. mine is a little too crisp and precise, if you know what I mean.
Is there any way out of this jam, apart from a complete respray. I was thinking (dont shoot me) of doing a light over spray of brown or similar, to give the thing a look of brownish tinge. Is that a bad idea. Should i just leave well enough alone? Ill post the photos as soon as possible.
Some renditions of this model do show a distinct green colouration in the finish, but not as green as what I have. most are this mix of what appears to be brown and olive. One professional model maker explained it as trying to simulate fading, which I dont know is true or not.
The question now is what do i do. I have a really well applied paint scheme, that is sort of right, but not right....if I go back and respray, I will have to do the whole thing again and Im not at all confident I will get as good a result as I have. Its very frustrating. If i can avoid it, I would like to avoid a full respray
The other detail ive noticed is that the change from the top coat "green" to the underside "blue grey" whilst having a definite point of definition, does still tend to fade in and fade out to each colour. ive not quite captured that. mine is a little too crisp and precise, if you know what I mean.
Is there any way out of this jam, apart from a complete respray. I was thinking (dont shoot me) of doing a light over spray of brown or similar, to give the thing a look of brownish tinge. Is that a bad idea. Should i just leave well enough alone? Ill post the photos as soon as possible.
- Thread starter
- #66
parsifal
Colonel
Night Fighter Nut
Master Sergeant
Michael, the brown look that you were seeing is a lightened version of Olive Drab. To lighten it, you would add a couple of drops of white to your olive drab mixture before shooting it with your air brush. Practice on a spare bit of paper or plastic first. Another way to lighten the olive drab is to use Industrial Isopropal Alcohol... not regular rubbing alcohol. This usually lightens the color a notch. The gray is usually a neutral gray. Hope this helps.
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Night Fighter Nut
Master Sergeant
T Bolt
Colonel
Michael, before going as far as re-spraying, I'd try to tone down the green by rubbing brown pastel chalk into it. This will also give it an uneven weathered look. If it works than seal it with clear flat, if not it can be wiped off with a damp paper towel. Just remember that the pastel effect is lessoned when it's sealed, so put it on a little heavier than you want it. In my experience the darker the pastel the better it stands up to the clear coat. Black stays very well wile white of light gray almost completely disappears, so brown will be somewhere in between depending on how dark a brown you use.
fubar57
General
Any thoughts about using a thinned brownish wash? When I want to test a new paint technique, I use the inside of a wing half from a future project. Paint your original green, let it dry and then apply the wash. If it doesn't work, your testing is covered up when the wing halves are joined.
Geo
Geo
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
All good advice, but if you decide to re-paint, do not use a mix with white! This will provide a lighter green, going away from what's required.
The original colour was known as Dark Olive Drab, later replaced by Olive Drab, a slightly lightened version of the same paint. This was a dark green with a brown tinge which, after weathering, particularly in the conditions in the ETO, showed more and more of a brown tone. This could range from green with a brown tone, through brown with a green tone, to brown, or even a purplish looking shade!
This is good news for modellers, as virtually anything approximating the tones will be acceptable!
The green you have used does look rather too green, and can be simply remedied. I normally mix my own variations of Olive Drab, using RAF Dark Green, and RAF Dark Earth, although any colours close to this will do the job. The average mix is 50/50 of each colour, which gives a good representation of the brownish green.
Mixing white with a green, or Olive Drab paint, will lighten both, and reduce the brown effect - to lighten an existing paint branded as OD, mix in a little yellow, perhaps just a very small touch of white, and tone down, if needed, with a yellow and dark earth mix, until it looks right.
The underside colour was known as Neutral Gray (American spelling) and, although I can only just see it in your pics, looks fairly close.
EDIT: I forgot to add - what appears to be a merging of the upper and underside colours is due to a soft-edged spraying between the demarcation. In this scale, it can be replicated by mixing 50% of the upper surface colour, with 50% of the Neutral Gray, and painting in the demarcation, using a 000 lining brush, as a wavy line. At normal viewing distances, it looks just like a soft-edged spray.
The original colour was known as Dark Olive Drab, later replaced by Olive Drab, a slightly lightened version of the same paint. This was a dark green with a brown tinge which, after weathering, particularly in the conditions in the ETO, showed more and more of a brown tone. This could range from green with a brown tone, through brown with a green tone, to brown, or even a purplish looking shade!
This is good news for modellers, as virtually anything approximating the tones will be acceptable!
The green you have used does look rather too green, and can be simply remedied. I normally mix my own variations of Olive Drab, using RAF Dark Green, and RAF Dark Earth, although any colours close to this will do the job. The average mix is 50/50 of each colour, which gives a good representation of the brownish green.
Mixing white with a green, or Olive Drab paint, will lighten both, and reduce the brown effect - to lighten an existing paint branded as OD, mix in a little yellow, perhaps just a very small touch of white, and tone down, if needed, with a yellow and dark earth mix, until it looks right.
The underside colour was known as Neutral Gray (American spelling) and, although I can only just see it in your pics, looks fairly close.
EDIT: I forgot to add - what appears to be a merging of the upper and underside colours is due to a soft-edged spraying between the demarcation. In this scale, it can be replicated by mixing 50% of the upper surface colour, with 50% of the Neutral Gray, and painting in the demarcation, using a 000 lining brush, as a wavy line. At normal viewing distances, it looks just like a soft-edged spray.
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Catch22
Major
Good luck with whatever you decide.
- Thread starter
- #73
parsifal
Colonel
Im thinking aloud here, so apologies for the disjoointed trains of thought......
With great respect to everyone, when terry speaks, you listen carefully. He knows more under one fingernail than most of us can ever hope for in a lifetime of model building.
That said, I really like TBolts suggestion because of its simplicity, and because if it doesnt work, I can always reverse it. How to marry terry's advice with t-Bolts simplicity...that is the question (shades of shakespeare....a shakespearean tragedy in the making perhaps....hmmm)
Terry.... I have a question or two about your advice. What is a 000 brush. Is that a REALLY small brush for us mortals? Regarding your suggestion about softening the edges, how would i marry that with TBolts suggestion.
The really sad thing is that when i was buying paint, I bought two different tins, both tamiya acrylics. I bought a drab olive and a normal olive. I tried the drab and thought it too dark (its the colour you see in my first coat in those earlier shots I posted. I changed to the Olive, got a great application (by my standards) but b*gger!!! wrong colour %#*!!!!!!!!
so this might need a bit of thinking through to stage a recovery and Im thinking a lot of preliminary testing to get this right. I throw it open for discussion, but eventually I will need to make a decision, I was thinking along these lines....firstly practice until I get the colour right on test strips. Im thinking switch to the Olive drab and adding some yellow to get that slightly lighter tone that terry is suggesting. I think I will try a 75/25 mix and work back from that. For the edges, if the main colour is 75/25, I will then need to further change it to a 75/25 plus the grey that I already have on the underside to get that feathering effect. Ill do the edges first, wait for it to dry, mask up and then apply the new mix (the yellow olive drab mix, in whatever proportions turn out to be correct....I might even try a Buff/olive drab mix as I have suspicion this might be alright as well). Im alo thinking this top coat needs or should be a very thinned down application, applied from almost directly over the model...a top down application.
With great respect to everyone, when terry speaks, you listen carefully. He knows more under one fingernail than most of us can ever hope for in a lifetime of model building.
That said, I really like TBolts suggestion because of its simplicity, and because if it doesnt work, I can always reverse it. How to marry terry's advice with t-Bolts simplicity...that is the question (shades of shakespeare....a shakespearean tragedy in the making perhaps....hmmm)
Terry.... I have a question or two about your advice. What is a 000 brush. Is that a REALLY small brush for us mortals? Regarding your suggestion about softening the edges, how would i marry that with TBolts suggestion.
The really sad thing is that when i was buying paint, I bought two different tins, both tamiya acrylics. I bought a drab olive and a normal olive. I tried the drab and thought it too dark (its the colour you see in my first coat in those earlier shots I posted. I changed to the Olive, got a great application (by my standards) but b*gger!!! wrong colour %#*!!!!!!!!
so this might need a bit of thinking through to stage a recovery and Im thinking a lot of preliminary testing to get this right. I throw it open for discussion, but eventually I will need to make a decision, I was thinking along these lines....firstly practice until I get the colour right on test strips. Im thinking switch to the Olive drab and adding some yellow to get that slightly lighter tone that terry is suggesting. I think I will try a 75/25 mix and work back from that. For the edges, if the main colour is 75/25, I will then need to further change it to a 75/25 plus the grey that I already have on the underside to get that feathering effect. Ill do the edges first, wait for it to dry, mask up and then apply the new mix (the yellow olive drab mix, in whatever proportions turn out to be correct....I might even try a Buff/olive drab mix as I have suspicion this might be alright as well). Im alo thinking this top coat needs or should be a very thinned down application, applied from almost directly over the model...a top down application.
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Tend to agree with your train of thought Michael, try the Glenn suggestion, it's easier to apply and a less drastic step than a repaint.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I agree with Vic. Try Glenn's suggestion first, before thinking about a re-paint - that was the intention of my original suggestion, and I should have worded it more clearly.
IF you decide on a re-paint, are you spraying, or brushing? If spraying, then a light misting of the newly mixed colour (when you're happy with the mixing results), applied in two or three coats, perhaps more, will cover the original colour, and will also give a slightly weathered look. (the mixed paint will not be far off the current density, just more 'brown', making it appear lighter).
If brushing, then again, do it in thinned coats, probably two, maybe three, the equivalent of 'misting', allowing each coat to dry thoroughly before applying the next.
The 000 brush is a very fine 'lining' brush. If you consider that 'normal' brushes start at '1' and rise numerically with size, then below this is the opposite - '0' being smaller than '1', and progressing to finer brushes, down to '00000'.
It is possible to use even a '3' brush, given the tip is pointed and fine, when only the tip is used. The 50/50 mix of the colours is then painted, as a line, at the joint of the upper and lower surface colours, and if the upper surface shows through slightly, that's OK - it'll look like a spray gun has 'wafted' over the edges on the real thing.
If you're going to stay with the upper surface colour and use Glenn's suggestion, then, when you're happy with the overall finish, the technique can still be used, by making a 50/50 mix of the paint used on both upper and lower surfaces, and applying this in the same way, although slightly thinned.
IF you decide on a re-paint, are you spraying, or brushing? If spraying, then a light misting of the newly mixed colour (when you're happy with the mixing results), applied in two or three coats, perhaps more, will cover the original colour, and will also give a slightly weathered look. (the mixed paint will not be far off the current density, just more 'brown', making it appear lighter).
If brushing, then again, do it in thinned coats, probably two, maybe three, the equivalent of 'misting', allowing each coat to dry thoroughly before applying the next.
The 000 brush is a very fine 'lining' brush. If you consider that 'normal' brushes start at '1' and rise numerically with size, then below this is the opposite - '0' being smaller than '1', and progressing to finer brushes, down to '00000'.
It is possible to use even a '3' brush, given the tip is pointed and fine, when only the tip is used. The 50/50 mix of the colours is then painted, as a line, at the joint of the upper and lower surface colours, and if the upper surface shows through slightly, that's OK - it'll look like a spray gun has 'wafted' over the edges on the real thing.
If you're going to stay with the upper surface colour and use Glenn's suggestion, then, when you're happy with the overall finish, the technique can still be used, by making a 50/50 mix of the paint used on both upper and lower surfaces, and applying this in the same way, although slightly thinned.
Good luck with whatever you choose Michael, it's all a great learning experience!
you could try adding a little brown to your gloss or flat coat to tone down the green, as before try it on some scrap plastic first ?
- Thread starter
- #78
parsifal
Colonel
Ive had some success guys, I will posty some photos later this evening...
Good to hear things went well Michael!
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Nice to hear, will be hanging out for the pics.
