**** DONE: GB-36 1/48 Macchi C.202 Folgore - Axis Manufactured Aircraft of WWII

[Crimea_River]

That makes sense Kirby. I'm pretty ignorant on the Italian schemes so ignore everything I say, except what I just said.

 

[turbo]

Thanks very much Don - yup, I think I'm gonna have to upgrade to bourbon for this one!

Thanks Andy, your suggestion was a logical one, I'm just trying to make life hard for myself!

 

[parsifal]

I have to admit, I would have applied the green as the basecoat and then applied the Sand as a mottle. But I will concede that the difference in the way you've applied (ie a complete reverse in the sequencing) does produce a noticeable difference in the look, that overall is better.

Doing it with the poster putty is very clever as well.

 

[Wurger]

I just went through a couple of references for the MC.202. The order of colours for such camouflaged Folgores is described as the green background with sand and brown blotches. .. so, painting with the green colour overall and then applying small spots of different tone. The difference are those painted sandy with small green spots or squiggles. Here the first paint is always mentioned as the sandy one. I would say that's quite logical but a plane painted with the sandy colour overall and the again painted almost overall with the green to make the sandy small spots that's a double work consuming time, wasting lot of paint and also adding some more of weight to the plane. Just my two cents.

 

[Donivanp]

Though the Green background may tend to darken the sand, I would do it in that order. BUT I WOULD BE DRUNK FIRST!!!!!!!

 

[Wurger]

Though the Green background may tend to darken the sand,

I'm not sure if the rule should be used for the real planes, Don. However some of T-stoff can be useful.

 

[Wayne Little]

Me....I'd do the sand first, then plan the layout of the green with Green pastel similar to the colour i would spray , spray the green and go back with a well thinned sand to touch up my edges....I would certainly do sections at a time improving the process as I go....might take a little longer but it's achieving that end result that counts...

 

[Wurger]

Yes that's the way used for models usually but it seems that the real way was a little bit different. At least , in the case of the Italian Folgores.

 

[turbo]

I just went through a couple of references for the MC.202. The order of colours for such camouflaged Folgores is described as the green background with sand and brown blotches. .. so, painting with the green colour overall and then applying small spots of different tone.

Thanks Wojtek, I've seen that too. The camo description I posted earlier has the colours in the order basecoat, mottle 1, mottle 2, undersides.

This is a technical description of the camo pattern as it appears (by definition I guess the sand colour blob has to be defined as a "mottle"), but the question I asked myself was does this necessarily mean the order in which the colours were actually painted at the factory? To answer this question I looked at the reference pictures you posted above. I'll post a couple of close-ups from those photos and ask for opinions. From the wing:

And from the fuselage:

What do you think? To me the spray pattern looks very much like the green has been sprayed over the sand, so that is what I'm looking to replicate.

Me....I'd do the sand first, then plan the layout of the green with Green pastel similar to the colour i would spray , spray the green and go back with a well thinned sand to touch up my edges....I would certainly do sections at a time improving the process as I go....might take a little longer but it's achieving that end result that counts...

You've nailed my plan exactly Wayne!

Thanks a lot guys, this discussion is all very useful for me

 

[Wurger]

IMHO you might be right. These spots on the wing looks like you said. But I would like to make a focus on the quality of the pics. This is not too great. The another point I would like to pay your attention to , is that the fuselage had the camo applied in a little different way. The sand blotches were much smaller and covered by the spots of the brown paint. This caused the sandy areas even more smaller and looking like small squiggles. The wings got them of much large size and the brown colour didn't overpaint them let's say, almost fully like on the fuselage. Here are enlarged both the starboard and port wings. If the green paint would be applied over the sand one the sandy spots should be of more smudgy edges and could be darker because of the green dusting around. As you may notice these are of quite sharp edges what may indicate either the using of templates or applying with an airbrush with a nozzle of small diameter. Of course a bruhs would be possible as well. Additionally, please have a look at the width of the green pathes making the green pattern. It is a very irregular. IMHO it would be quite difficult to paint a such irregular path with the airbrush . Just it is easier to get a shape of small blotches However these squiggles and smike rings were of the irregular width very often too.
BTW.. "su ( sul ) fondo" means over the background....

Here is a shot of brand-new MC.202s with the factory camo applied. I would say the green overall and then the sandy blotches. Please note how accurate the spots were applied.

To sum up... which way you follow it doesn't matter. The final effect is the most important. If it is easier to you to apply the green over the sand.. no problem.
Having such skills like you it shouldn't be any trouble to achieve the great effect. Just my opinion.

 

[Wurger]

Oh .. and I have found that ...

 

[Crimea_River]

It would be most helpful to know exactly how this particular aircraft left the factory. Was it dark green with the sand blotches like Wojtek's pic above or was it sand? I don't know anything about Italian production methods but it seems to me that if we can nail this down, it would answer the question of painting sequence. I wonder if the wings and fuselage were factory painted separately which could explain the different appearance.

 

[Wurger]

Yes Andy. That info would be very helpful. To be honest when I look at the kite I'm still getting an impression she was assembled with parts of three different planes.

 

[Airframes]

I know very little about Italian aircraft or their 'factory' colour schemes, but some of the pics give the impression that the green was sprayed over sand, the latter being the main base colour. This is based on the shape and pattern of the green, where it looks like it's been sprayed in irregular, almost circular patterns, joining each other.
BUT, I have seen numerous photos of various Italian types in the basic green finish, which makes me think that this was the base colour, meaning the other colours were sprayed over the top of this.
However, in the case of a model, with its small surface area, I think applying the sand first, and then the green 'squiggle' pattern, would minimise errors, and be easier to spray. The darker 'egg yolks' could then be applied to the sand 'mottles' at will, according to the remaining area of each 'mottle' spot.

 

[parsifal]

Was it not the case that the full green camo was more prevalent for units stationed in the north?

Somewhere I know that read that the desert or mediterranean scheme was applied to units serving in the desert, southern Italy or other overseas possessions.

Given that Italy believed she would be mostly involved in a continental war, it makes sense at least that the base colour applied at the factory would be green, and that mottles might be applied as a field mod ???

 

[Vic Balshaw]

What a paint dilemma, I did think little blobs of wet tissue on a sand base but am not sure they would stick well enough when dry to stay in place when spraying with the green.

 

[turbo]

Great discussion guys!

Thanks Wojtek for the new images and profile! There's some interesting information there in the profile that I didn't know. The pictures of the factory-fresh Folgores are also interesting. It is a different camo scheme and also with this I can't decide whether the sand is painted over the green or the other way round! It was probably done differently for different schemes. I also agree with your observation that the camo on the fuselage and wings is slightly different, with the brown mottles on the fuselage being more prominent and obscuring a larger proportion of the sand mottles.

It would be most helpful to know exactly how this particular aircraft left the factory.

I'm fairly certain it left the factory with the C8 fried egg scheme Andy. This seems to be confirmed from the profile Wojtek posted above which mentions "Still in the original factory colours...". Maybe the difference between the fuselage and the wings is due to field touch ups and oversprays which is also mentioned or simply that this is the way they did it!

Given that Italy believed she would be mostly involved in a continental war, it makes sense at least that the base colour applied at the factory would be green, and that mottles might be applied as a field mod ???

Michael, the excellent Stormo site gives a good description of all the factory-applied camo schemes, the aircraft they were used on, and the periods and theatres they were used in.

STORMO! Color Guide

You are right that the earlier ones (including this C8 one) were designed for the continental theatre, but you can also see the D schemes that were used in the MTO. This bird also seems to have inherited a replacement cowl from a MTO scheme.

Thanks for the great discussion guys! I have learnt a lot about Italian camo schemes and it has really helped crystallise my thinking on how to approach the painting of this model.

 

[Gnomey]

Looks good so far!

 

[turbo]

Thanks Hugh. Little bit of progress. The waist band and tail cross areas were sprayed white toned down with 5% buff and masked off using Tamiya flexible tape for curved surfaces and normal tape. Decals were supplied for the crosses but I prefer to paint insignia where I can. This would have been a hell of a lot easier if I had one of those new fangled mask cutters Andy and John have been playing with!

Normally I start with painting of the undersides, but in this case I've decided to start with the upper camo as it will make masking easier later. The first step was painting of the Giallo Mimetico 4 base as discussed above. For this I used a 50:50 mix of Gunze H57 Sand Yellow and Tamiya XF-59 Desert Yellow slowly built up over the pre-shade.

The cowl was a replacement from another aircraft and has a different desert camo scheme, so will be painted separately. Next up, the hard work of building up the complex camo pattern begins...

 

[Wurger]