- Thread starter
- #181
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yippee! I think I've found a suitable, representative serial number!
As I've already explained to Max, I've had a reply from the National Archives, Kew, regarding the Squadron Operational Record Book. It is possible to obtain copies of just the entries for the relevant dates, but I'd need to quote the page numbers. Of course, the only way I can do this, is to physically see the ORB, which means a visit to London. Alternatively, I can buy a copy of the complete ORB, or pay for the search to be done by NA staff.
All indications to date suggest that the elusive information very probably isn't recorded in the ORB anyway, a feeling which is reinforced by the complete lack of info regarding serials in any other publication, profile or reference, apart from those (very few) included in personal accounts by former Squadron personnel. Virtually all references to the Squadron's aircraft for the period in question, only mention individual code letters, and only these are entered in Bob Cross's Log Book, which previous researchers have not had access to.
This in turn suggests that the only other sources, the ORB and Combat Reports, don't have serial numbers listed either, only code letters. (Virtually all cases of photos showing a serial number and code combination are well after the relevant dates, when the aircraft concerned were delivered months later.)
So, being unable to go out tonight due to the f****** arthritis playing up, and with nothing else to do on New Year's eve, it was back to searching through the serials listings of all MkVIII Spitfires produced, and delivered to India, which would fit the dates, and these mainly fell into the 'JF' and 'JG' serial ranges, the majority of which are only shown as delivered to India, between late 1943 and January 1944, with no squadron allocation recorded.
However I was able to establish, by some cross-referencing, that JF833 and JF752 were definitely on Squadron strength at the time, although the latter was lost on February 5th, and the former was coded either 'D' or 'P'.
Likewise, two other machines lost in action in February were JG714, again on 5th, and JW767, on 15th February.
This left one further aircraft confirmed as being on strength of 136 Squadron at the correct time, and this was JF619.
Now there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this was HM-E, but, unless some hitherto unpublished photographs or film footage emerge, showing this serial number, or showing HM-E with a different serial number, there is also no evidence to suggest that this wasn't the serial number carried !
Unless such photo-evidence comes to light, then it will probably never be known which aircraft had whatever serial, as even the Aircraft Movement Card, AM Form 78, which holds an individual aircraft's 'history', would not normally include the code letter. Although this is a fairly nebulous link, I need to nail this now, and provide an 'identity' for the model.
So, at last, HM-E is now going to have the serial JF619.
Of course, at some time in the future, my decision could lead to all sorts of 'complications', where future authors/artists/ researchers, could stumble on this, and accept it as fact, thereby perpetuating and compounding the innacuracy, if indeed it is inaccurate. But I'm sure that most of us are familiar with such occurances and, having explained the logic behind my decision, I hope you will understand the spirit in which it was made.
And with that, I'm off to look at what appears to be a whole fleet of UFOs in the southern sky - probably airliners stacking for Manchester, but they seem very bright, and many more than usual, especially with night restrictions!
Happy New Year to all, and I sincerely hope I can get to the pub tomorrow!
As I've already explained to Max, I've had a reply from the National Archives, Kew, regarding the Squadron Operational Record Book. It is possible to obtain copies of just the entries for the relevant dates, but I'd need to quote the page numbers. Of course, the only way I can do this, is to physically see the ORB, which means a visit to London. Alternatively, I can buy a copy of the complete ORB, or pay for the search to be done by NA staff.
All indications to date suggest that the elusive information very probably isn't recorded in the ORB anyway, a feeling which is reinforced by the complete lack of info regarding serials in any other publication, profile or reference, apart from those (very few) included in personal accounts by former Squadron personnel. Virtually all references to the Squadron's aircraft for the period in question, only mention individual code letters, and only these are entered in Bob Cross's Log Book, which previous researchers have not had access to.
This in turn suggests that the only other sources, the ORB and Combat Reports, don't have serial numbers listed either, only code letters. (Virtually all cases of photos showing a serial number and code combination are well after the relevant dates, when the aircraft concerned were delivered months later.)
So, being unable to go out tonight due to the f****** arthritis playing up, and with nothing else to do on New Year's eve, it was back to searching through the serials listings of all MkVIII Spitfires produced, and delivered to India, which would fit the dates, and these mainly fell into the 'JF' and 'JG' serial ranges, the majority of which are only shown as delivered to India, between late 1943 and January 1944, with no squadron allocation recorded.
However I was able to establish, by some cross-referencing, that JF833 and JF752 were definitely on Squadron strength at the time, although the latter was lost on February 5th, and the former was coded either 'D' or 'P'.
Likewise, two other machines lost in action in February were JG714, again on 5th, and JW767, on 15th February.
This left one further aircraft confirmed as being on strength of 136 Squadron at the correct time, and this was JF619.
Now there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this was HM-E, but, unless some hitherto unpublished photographs or film footage emerge, showing this serial number, or showing HM-E with a different serial number, there is also no evidence to suggest that this wasn't the serial number carried !
Unless such photo-evidence comes to light, then it will probably never be known which aircraft had whatever serial, as even the Aircraft Movement Card, AM Form 78, which holds an individual aircraft's 'history', would not normally include the code letter. Although this is a fairly nebulous link, I need to nail this now, and provide an 'identity' for the model.
So, at last, HM-E is now going to have the serial JF619.
Of course, at some time in the future, my decision could lead to all sorts of 'complications', where future authors/artists/ researchers, could stumble on this, and accept it as fact, thereby perpetuating and compounding the innacuracy, if indeed it is inaccurate. But I'm sure that most of us are familiar with such occurances and, having explained the logic behind my decision, I hope you will understand the spirit in which it was made.
And with that, I'm off to look at what appears to be a whole fleet of UFOs in the southern sky - probably airliners stacking for Manchester, but they seem very bright, and many more than usual, especially with night restrictions!
Happy New Year to all, and I sincerely hope I can get to the pub tomorrow!
