GB 20 Question...

Airframes · Nov 1, 2013

If the aircraft type is in the markings of a foreign power, for example, a Hurricane in Yugolslav markings, then it would qualify.
However, a French-built Storch, or, more correctly, a Storch built in a factory in France, controlled and directed by the Germans, in German markings, or a RAAF squadron Lancaster, in RAF markings, would not qualify. The latter example is particularly noteworthy, as Commonwealth squadrons in the ETO at that time were, were under the direct control, administration and regulation of the RAF, and were not classed as 'foreign'. Also, being Commonwealth, and at that time, all RAAF and RNZAF units were considered part of the Crown, and therefore 'British'.
The spirit of this GB is aimed at distinct examples of one country's aircraft in the service, and markings of another country, which should provide a huge choice of subjects, with the RAF and Commonwealth air forces alone, for example, providing a vast choice of American types.
The intention of the various GBs is to provide variety, rather than an endless parade of the same old subjects.

pattle · Nov 1, 2013

The thing is though the RAAF had RAF markings in all theatres, I assume that SAAF is ok?

Crimea_River · Nov 1, 2013

Not sure why this is so difficult. There are so many great and obvious possibilities without having to go into gray areas.

Airframes · Nov 1, 2013

pattle said:
The thing is though the RAAF had RAF markings in all theatres, I assume that SAAF is ok?

The RAAF in the PTO had their own form of markings, distinctly different to the RAF 'SEAC' roundels, and also used their own squadron code and serial number system, which is why I emphasised RAAF in the ETO.
The SAAF operated aircraft in their own markings, none of which, to the best of my knowledge, were types indiginous to South Africa, and therefore would be aircraft in foreign service.

N4521U · Nov 1, 2013

I feel like I'm reading something from Facebook now.
My head is spinning.

RAAF P-40 is my choice, easy.

Crimea_River · Nov 1, 2013

I'm doing the same Bill, though I'm two GB's behind. Still trying to finish my GB 18 and 19 entries!

Vic Balshaw · Nov 1, 2013

Just to confirm the use of commonwealth aircraft, I'm thinking of a Spitfire Mk.Vc flown under RAAF colours out of Darwin for a possible second entry.

pattle · Nov 2, 2013

Crimea_River said:
Not sure why this is so difficult. There are so many great and obvious possibilities without having to go into gray areas.

Don't worry I am just being argumentative for the fun of it, if I have the time I will do a number of kits in Greek markings. About the Australian markings, I realise the RAF adopted a two tone blue roundel later in the war while the Australians opted for blue and white, but earlier on in the war against Japan I believe both the
RAF and RAAF simply removed the red from the centre of the roundel and carried on like that for a while.

P.S. I prefer to call them grey areas rather than gray areas.

Wildcat · Nov 2, 2013

Gents, believe it or not, but Australia did have it's own Air Force in WWII. In fact it has been in existence since 1921! RAAF squadrons in the Pacific had nothing to do with the RAF, they were manned, deployed, funded and controlled by the Australian Government - not the British air Ministry, just as they are today.

Airframes · Nov 2, 2013

Which is exactly what I was getting at in posts #101 and #104.
RAAF in the PTO was RAAF, not RAF, and used their own markings distinctly different to the RAF 'SEAC' markings, early or late type.
This should be enough to clarify things - end of subject.

pattle · Nov 2, 2013

Airframes said:
Which is exactly what I was getting at in posts #101 and #104.
RAAF in the PTO was RAAF, not RAF, and used their own markings distinctly different to the RAF 'SEAC' markings, early or late type.
This should be enough to clarify things - end of subject.

Have a look at the RAAF website roundel page, sorry but I haven't worked out how to do links yet. If the traditional RAF roundel is not allowed in this build than that is not a problem for me, I only write this as a matter of interest.

Airframes · Nov 2, 2013

As mentioned, in the PTO, the RAAF roundel was as shown on the profiles of the Buffalo's displaying the blue and white roundels.
Initially, the RAF removed the red center spot, and reduced the size of the white area, by enlarging the blue ring. This was an unofficial interpretation of the Directive at that time, and was temporary, with the blue/pale blue. small, SEAC roundels being introduced soon after.
Of the other photos displayed, the Mustang could possibly qualify, although debatable if CAC -built, and the Buffalo was CAC anyway, so not in foreign service.
As mentioned, the intention of the GB is to portray distinct types in obvious foreign service, as already described, and with the greatest respect, with such a broad choice available, we judges have enough to contend with without entering into debate, splitting hairs over what is, and what isn't, 'foreign service'.

pattle · Nov 2, 2013

Sorry if I have been boring, I thought it was an interesting point of discussion.

Micdrow · Nov 2, 2013

Wayne Little said:
well....I would like to complete my Foreign service 109's for the next GB, a Finnish G-2 and Hungarian G-6 to go with my Romanian and Italian birds....a D-9 in Russian markings is also a possibility....

LOL Wayne, Russian was captured but what about Swedish, Croatian, Bulgarian and Spanish Bf-109's oh and I forgot the Japanese purchased a few if I remember right though they did not see combat?

Lucky13 · Nov 4, 2013

Just thinking here, would a Romanian PZL-23, PZL-37 be allowed? Have seen decals for a Romanian PZL-23 '13', seen pics of crashed PZL-37 '213', soooo......comments?

Wurger · Nov 4, 2013

Nope. These Romanian PZL 23A/B and PZL 37 Łoś were commandeered planes when being evacuated to the country after the September Campaign 1939. However in July 1939 there was concluded an agreement for delivering of 30 PZL 37Ds to Romania. They made a down payment for 5 bombers. Of course the D variant didn't appear on assembling lines at all because of the war.

woody · Nov 4, 2013

I was thinking about doing a mustang but not sure yet.

Lucky13 · Nov 5, 2013

Much obliged Herr Dr.
See what else pop up....

destrozas · Nov 5, 2013

Micdrow said:
LOL Wayne, Russian was captured but what about Swedish, Croatian, Bulgarian and Spanish Bf-109's oh and I forgot the Japanese purchased a few if I remember right though they did not see combat?

the Japanese bought 4 me. Bf 109e and the license to produce the DB 601E, if I remember correctly, and only reciver various engines and a single plane, but if you bought and especially many Italian aircraft BR20, Spain only models B and C Recivier model E nothing that tubieron pretenecieron 20 items but not the Spanish army although Spanish were flown by pilots at the beginning of WW2 with the invasion of Austria and czechia planes returned to Germany and Spain began to produce the aircraft under license as Bf.109e2 House, but has the heinkel 112 active estubo well into the 60s, the HE115, dornier do14t, ju290a5 and many others ...

Wayne Little · Nov 5, 2013

Micdrow said:
LOL Wayne, Russian was captured but what about Swedish, Croatian, Bulgarian and Spanish Bf-109's oh and I forgot the Japanese purchased a few if I remember right though they did not see combat?

Now come on Paul...I had a brain fart about the Dora..

I may add a Bulgarian G one day or even a Swiss G, Spanish B,C, D or E are definitely on the future Menu...

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