Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Great shots mate!
SBD-2 Dauntless "Black B-1" Lt. Richard H. Best VB-6 Uss Enterprise Group Build
- Thread starter Njaco
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Well, I'm an old school modellor - barely read the instructions. Just a quick glance, check stuff and off I go. Sometimes it bites me in the arse. Well, this did. I'm trying to fit the floor pan and the dash correctly in the fuselage half, fiddling here and there when I decide to actually read the instructions. Donjya know the fuslage halves are supposed to be glued by this time! Here I am, thinking I'll get all the parts together and painted and glued then do the halves when it should be the other way around. I bring this up because if I had followed the instructions it would have been EASIER at this point. Uughhh! No harm done, just extra work for my self. 
No pics yet, still finessing the fuselage interior with color.
No pics yet, still finessing the fuselage interior with color.
- Thread starter
- #44
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Ok, did some more work and got some pics....
PIC 1: These are the two fuselage halves with the base coat of green along with the cockpit floor pan. I painted with Interior green, then highlighted certain areas such as boxes and dials with black, red, white and tan. Then dry brushed some silver on key areas such as the rails and floor. Painted some wiring on the floor silver. When dry gave the whole thing a wash of black and then dry brushed with white to highlight. I hate doing dials so instead of going cross-eyed trying to do that, I heavily dry brushed around the dials and brought out the small details.
PIC 2: Before completeing the cockpit I had to glue the fuselage halves together. I noticed that there was a slight warp to the whole thing, so starting at the tail I slowly worked my way up to the engine bulkhead. This area would be easiest to fix the warp.
PIC 3: The warp before I fixed it. As you can see, when the fuselage is attached, the warp allows for a misalignment of the bulkhead. But never fear!! Because of the fine people on the forum I knew exactly wat to do. I Waynugerized it!!! With a small piece of plastic, I glued on side on the inside of the bulkhead as a brace. When dried and set I realigned the bulkhead properly, glued the brace and clamped it. 24 hours later, fixed!!
PIC 4: This pic is just to show that all the help for this project from Micdrow, eric, Leonard and james is put to good use. Of course its a little awkward trying to look at the screen and paint at the same time, but I did it. This is me painting the cockpit area using the fines pics posted as reference. Thanks all!
PIC 5 6: The completed cockpit with the weathering, wash and such. I notice in the pics some specks, so will go back and see whats up.
PIC 7: And the corrected bulkhead. Brace in place and everything fits! I've learned more here in the last 6 months than I could from any book. Thanks guys!
PIC 1: These are the two fuselage halves with the base coat of green along with the cockpit floor pan. I painted with Interior green, then highlighted certain areas such as boxes and dials with black, red, white and tan. Then dry brushed some silver on key areas such as the rails and floor. Painted some wiring on the floor silver. When dry gave the whole thing a wash of black and then dry brushed with white to highlight. I hate doing dials so instead of going cross-eyed trying to do that, I heavily dry brushed around the dials and brought out the small details.
PIC 2: Before completeing the cockpit I had to glue the fuselage halves together. I noticed that there was a slight warp to the whole thing, so starting at the tail I slowly worked my way up to the engine bulkhead. This area would be easiest to fix the warp.
PIC 3: The warp before I fixed it. As you can see, when the fuselage is attached, the warp allows for a misalignment of the bulkhead. But never fear!! Because of the fine people on the forum I knew exactly wat to do. I Waynugerized it!!! With a small piece of plastic, I glued on side on the inside of the bulkhead as a brace. When dried and set I realigned the bulkhead properly, glued the brace and clamped it. 24 hours later, fixed!!
PIC 4: This pic is just to show that all the help for this project from Micdrow, eric, Leonard and james is put to good use. Of course its a little awkward trying to look at the screen and paint at the same time, but I did it. This is me painting the cockpit area using the fines pics posted as reference. Thanks all!
PIC 5 6: The completed cockpit with the weathering, wash and such. I notice in the pics some specks, so will go back and see whats up.
PIC 7: And the corrected bulkhead. Brace in place and everything fits! I've learned more here in the last 6 months than I could from any book. Thanks guys!
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Catch22
Major
Wow, that really looks great Chris! Nice job!
Lucke.stz
Senior Airman
Look great Chris !!!! I like your way to paint on the computer
ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
Looks real good, Chris. Going to be an interesting build.
Charles
Charles
Looks fantastic Chris, glad your feeling well enough to make a start !
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
It's looking great Chris, the cockpit has turned out very well. It's interesting that you, Cory and me have all experienced warping of similar proportions on kits from the same stable, albeit different types, but all warped in the same direction.
Hopefully you've got it corrected though. If the Dauntless kit is like the Avenger, with spars for the wing joints, you shouldn't have a problem with lopsided wings. Looking forward to the next pics.
Hopefully you've got it corrected though. If the Dauntless kit is like the Avenger, with spars for the wing joints, you shouldn't have a problem with lopsided wings. Looking forward to the next pics.
- Thread starter
- #51
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
It was a slight warp and I was able to fix because I remembered some things that Wurger and Wayne did. THAT is how this GB and forum are fantastic!
I dry fit the wings and they seem ok so far.
I dry fit the wings and they seem ok so far.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Beautiful work Chris!
109ROAMING
2nd Lieutenant
Looking real good mate! 8)
A4K
Brigadier General
Damn that looks good Chris!!!! I love it!!
glad to have provided some assistance!- Thread starter
- #56
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Ok, I have a big problem. I've attached the wings and intermediate cowling but......
The wing comes in 3 parts - one lower wing and 2 top pieces. I had no problems until attaching the upper parts. As the fuselage is slightly warped it allowed a gap to form at the wing roots. No problem except.....there are no contact points to glue at the root! I can see it was designed to glue to the fuselage itself but with the gap its not possible. So the wings are floating in air at the root with the fuselage. And I can't figure out a way to attach. The underside gives no help because this is where the dive brakes will be positioned and there really is no room to put anything. I was thinking maybe trying to gap the gap with something but I don't know. The pics show the topside and how they "float" at the fuselage and the underside where no contact is made.
Any ideas?
The wing comes in 3 parts - one lower wing and 2 top pieces. I had no problems until attaching the upper parts. As the fuselage is slightly warped it allowed a gap to form at the wing roots. No problem except.....there are no contact points to glue at the root! I can see it was designed to glue to the fuselage itself but with the gap its not possible. So the wings are floating in air at the root with the fuselage. And I can't figure out a way to attach. The underside gives no help because this is where the dive brakes will be positioned and there really is no room to put anything. I was thinking maybe trying to gap the gap with something but I don't know. The pics show the topside and how they "float" at the fuselage and the underside where no contact is made.
Any ideas?
Attachments
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Right, first suggestion(s), then see what the guys and Herr Doktor Wojtek have to offer.
Check, by dry fitting, holding in place and Mark 1 eyeball, that the lower centre section of the wing will be OK if glued in place and clamped until set. Depending on the space and angles available, you can 'clamp' with rubber bands, clothing pegs, tape or a combination, 'Bulldog' clips are good if they'll fit.
Once the cente section is glued, set the model on a smooth, flat surface, and check that the angles are OK and equal on both sides. You'll need a vertical reference point, for example, a vertical window frame or similar, that is visible behind the model. Line up the fin with the reference point, and look down the fuselage, from front and back, to ensure that this is 'square'. If it is, then check the angle of dihedral (if there should be one), or level, of the centre section.
Given that you're happy with this, then you can tackle the wing - tops. If you're NOT happy, then look to see what needs doing, and correct if possible. If not possible, post pics and ask again.
Now, if it's OK, now dry fit the wings, again taping, clamping or whatever, to hold them as close as possible to where they should be.
Check the angles again, particularly that each wing is equal, and that the dihedral is correct. It may be that the latter will be out, but the angles in relation to the fuselage, and the distance of the wingtips above the flat surface are what you need to see, in order that the finished model will LOOK right when it's sitting on it's 'legs'.
When you are OK with this, then look at the gaps on the upper wing roots. From what I've seen in the pics, you'll probably need to bridge the gap to a) allow the wings to mate and glue to something, and b) to fill the gap.
I reckon that strips of plastic sheet, or plastic strip or rod, will do the job, or possibly even stretched sprue. Remember the similar problem I had with the '110?
You can trial fit whatever is suitable and available with the wings dry-fitted and taped. Now, assuming you have found the right solution in the form of materials, glue the top wings, trying one at a time, starting from the tip inwards, until you reach what should be the root. If there is some 'spring', or play, near the root, you might have to use a couple of spots of Superglue (CA adhesive), just to help hold the joint until the poly cement sets.
When this is done, then you can insert the strip/rod/sprue, cementing it with liquid poly. When this has set, if neccessary, sand/file back, and then any remaining gap(s) can be filled. If it's a small gap, try the talcum powder and varnish 'porridge' trick I use on my models.
When this has hardened, then any required sanding can be done, and you should have a good, smooth joint, whcih will probably be stronger than the designed original.
This is a problem with the A.M. kits I think, even though the Avenger is my first one. They are made so well, and close, to scale, that any fit problem is a big problem, due to the very small locating point/areas.
I hope this helps Chris, and if you've any probs, PM or e-mail me, and I'll see what I can offer.
It may be that Wayne or Wojtek can come up with an alternative, simpler solution, so I'd advise only doing the trial fit for now.
Check, by dry fitting, holding in place and Mark 1 eyeball, that the lower centre section of the wing will be OK if glued in place and clamped until set. Depending on the space and angles available, you can 'clamp' with rubber bands, clothing pegs, tape or a combination, 'Bulldog' clips are good if they'll fit.
Once the cente section is glued, set the model on a smooth, flat surface, and check that the angles are OK and equal on both sides. You'll need a vertical reference point, for example, a vertical window frame or similar, that is visible behind the model. Line up the fin with the reference point, and look down the fuselage, from front and back, to ensure that this is 'square'. If it is, then check the angle of dihedral (if there should be one), or level, of the centre section.
Given that you're happy with this, then you can tackle the wing - tops. If you're NOT happy, then look to see what needs doing, and correct if possible. If not possible, post pics and ask again.
Now, if it's OK, now dry fit the wings, again taping, clamping or whatever, to hold them as close as possible to where they should be.
Check the angles again, particularly that each wing is equal, and that the dihedral is correct. It may be that the latter will be out, but the angles in relation to the fuselage, and the distance of the wingtips above the flat surface are what you need to see, in order that the finished model will LOOK right when it's sitting on it's 'legs'.
When you are OK with this, then look at the gaps on the upper wing roots. From what I've seen in the pics, you'll probably need to bridge the gap to a) allow the wings to mate and glue to something, and b) to fill the gap.
I reckon that strips of plastic sheet, or plastic strip or rod, will do the job, or possibly even stretched sprue. Remember the similar problem I had with the '110?
You can trial fit whatever is suitable and available with the wings dry-fitted and taped. Now, assuming you have found the right solution in the form of materials, glue the top wings, trying one at a time, starting from the tip inwards, until you reach what should be the root. If there is some 'spring', or play, near the root, you might have to use a couple of spots of Superglue (CA adhesive), just to help hold the joint until the poly cement sets.
When this is done, then you can insert the strip/rod/sprue, cementing it with liquid poly. When this has set, if neccessary, sand/file back, and then any remaining gap(s) can be filled. If it's a small gap, try the talcum powder and varnish 'porridge' trick I use on my models.
When this has hardened, then any required sanding can be done, and you should have a good, smooth joint, whcih will probably be stronger than the designed original.
This is a problem with the A.M. kits I think, even though the Avenger is my first one. They are made so well, and close, to scale, that any fit problem is a big problem, due to the very small locating point/areas.
I hope this helps Chris, and if you've any probs, PM or e-mail me, and I'll see what I can offer.
It may be that Wayne or Wojtek can come up with an alternative, simpler solution, so I'd advise only doing the trial fit for now.
- Thread starter
- #58
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Its not really a fit problem as "Where do I glue?" problem.
The pieces are already glued and I did what you suggested, working from tip to joint but the instructions say to start at the fuselage and work my way out. Should have done that. The dry-fit and all didn't show this problem until during glueing I reached the fuselage and realized there was nothing to glue! So it flaps in the wind. I can fix gaps and such but there is no place to glue the d@mn thing!
Thinking......
The pieces are already glued and I did what you suggested, working from tip to joint but the instructions say to start at the fuselage and work my way out. Should have done that. The dry-fit and all didn't show this problem until during glueing I reached the fuselage and realized there was nothing to glue! So it flaps in the wind. I can fix gaps and such but there is no place to glue the d@mn thing!
Thinking......
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Ok, I've got you.
It won't be much, but the thickness of the plastic on the fuselage wing root, and on the butt end of the wing root itself, will nedd to be glued, but you'll need to help it. I'd need to 'see inside' the wing halves, but I can sort of visualise it.
If you can build a brige, or a shelf of some kind, between the wing halves and the fuselage wing root, that will give something to 'grip' on, and reinforce the joint. It will almost certainly mean trying to get some plastic card or strip under the fuselage, between the outer part and the cockpit floor, and you may have to infringe into the area of the centre-sectiion flaps/dive brakes. What you are trying to do is provide an internal spar of sorts, for the wing to wedge, and rest on, whilst the minimal contact areas of the wing ends and fuselage meet and glue together.
It's difficult to explain without seeing the model, and physically showing you, but if you need it, I can draw a sketch of what I THINK the problem looks like, and how to possibly solve it.
It won't be much, but the thickness of the plastic on the fuselage wing root, and on the butt end of the wing root itself, will nedd to be glued, but you'll need to help it. I'd need to 'see inside' the wing halves, but I can sort of visualise it.
If you can build a brige, or a shelf of some kind, between the wing halves and the fuselage wing root, that will give something to 'grip' on, and reinforce the joint. It will almost certainly mean trying to get some plastic card or strip under the fuselage, between the outer part and the cockpit floor, and you may have to infringe into the area of the centre-sectiion flaps/dive brakes. What you are trying to do is provide an internal spar of sorts, for the wing to wedge, and rest on, whilst the minimal contact areas of the wing ends and fuselage meet and glue together.
It's difficult to explain without seeing the model, and physically showing you, but if you need it, I can draw a sketch of what I THINK the problem looks like, and how to possibly solve it.
- Thread starter
- #60
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
I know exactly what you mean and the priblem was there was no way to get there.
On 2d look, I noticed that there is a shelf of sorts on the fuselage part that the wing rests on. Because of the gap it was just out of reach or barely sitting on it. So what I did was fill the area with glue as best I could and then physically hold it in place for about an hour (the sloping sides didn't allow for a clamp). Once dried alittle and creating a little bridge, I put more glue on top off that and built it up. That was 3 hours ago and it seems to have worked. There will be some sanding and gap filling proper, but it looks solved.
Thanks.
On 2d look, I noticed that there is a shelf of sorts on the fuselage part that the wing rests on. Because of the gap it was just out of reach or barely sitting on it. So what I did was fill the area with glue as best I could and then physically hold it in place for about an hour (the sloping sides didn't allow for a clamp). Once dried alittle and creating a little bridge, I put more glue on top off that and built it up. That was 3 hours ago and it seems to have worked. There will be some sanding and gap filling proper, but it looks solved.
Thanks.
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