Done : Fw190D-9 ll> Stab./JG2 Gruppe Build

[Airframes]

No problem with your method Corey - it's one good way to form comparisons! I haven't studied the pics that closely, as I wanted to do it from 'hard copy' rather than electronic imaging, but, my first impressions were exactly what you have stated!

 

[Catch22]

No problem with your method Corey - it's one good way to form comparisons! I haven't studied the pics that closely, as I wanted to do it from 'hard copy' rather than electronic imaging, but, my first impressions were exactly what you have stated!

Good to know that you're on board! How would one get it so the paint looked faded?

 

[Catch22]

I don't know what it's called, but would the intake type thingy sticking out of the starboard side of the nose have anything but Lichtblau on it? To me it looks like one solid colour.

 

[Airframes]

Wayne has e-mailed me the pics I asked for, and I have printed them and studied them very carefully.
First, let me say that I don't think the paintwork, in the earlier shots anyway, is as faded as one might think; I'll explain why in due course.
Cory the supercharger intake (the intake thingy sticking out the side, as you put it!) is in the base colour, with a light overspray of mottle on the top, rear end.
Given that the engine cowling has the relatively low, hard demarcation line between the upper colour, and the fuselage/underside colour, it would be natural to assume this was one of the greens, which I will come back to.
In studying these shots, I used as a benchmark the fairing of the cockpit headrest, which we can assume was in RLM 66 Grey, with a possibility of being RLM 02; compare this with the fuselage cross first. The tonal qualities are very close, and I therefore believe that the dark portion of the cross is grey, with a white outline. If this is accepted, then the rest of the colour scheme can be analysed, starting with the base colour, i.e., the fuselage and underside.
Now, having received a copy of the page from Wayne's book that shows the port side of the aircraft, the first thing I noticed was the caption; this informed me that the original photographs were taken on orthchromatic film. Whilst this was still a common monochrome film during the period, panchromatic film had been introduced and, together with various printing processes, it is (normally) B&W images from Pan film that we are used to viewing. In many 'professional' American photographs, one of the processes used for pictures on the printed page was the 'duotone', which gave a very high quality, sharp and contrasty picture; the type associated with, for example, film star portraits. However, Panchromatic film is sensitive to all light, and records images of colours across the visible spectrum in such a way, that the human eye perceives and 'reads' a colour, even though there is no colour present in the printed picture, (if that makes sense?!).
But, Orthochromatic film, still used in the graphics and printing industry for the production of high-quality printed pictures on the printed page, is sensitive to the blue end of the spectrum. It is this 'quality' of the film that allows good, high contrast reproductions to be produced, and made into litho plates, for printing in books, magazines etc. with little, if any, loss of quality and sharpness.
However, ortho film needs good, strong light for correct and even exposure, the latter being relatively long compared to Pan film, or modern equivalents. Also, ortho film will record anything at the red end of the spectrum as a darker tone. This means that reds, for example, will appear very dark to black.
I'm sorry if this seems to be getting heavy, but bear with me, and you'll understand why.
Now, looking at the shots taken of the port side of the aircraft before it deteriorated, it is evident that there is good, even light, with strong, deep shadows. This rules out an overcast or dull, hazy day. But, the sky in the background is washed out, indicating over exposure, which, to an extent, is to be an expected result, a compromise, in the use of orthchromatic film for daylight subjects. Now, if the sides of the fuselage in these views is studied carefully, particularly that view where the tail is closer, it is evident that the subject (the fuselage), being light in colour, is also slightly over exposed. Study of the picture above this, where the nose is closer, reveals more detail, in the way of panels, and mottle, although it is still slightly over exposed. That is why I do not think the paint is as faded as one might think.
Now down to the nitty gritty.
Having compared all the tonal ranges, and taken into account the lighting, shadows, time of day (between 11am and 2pm, as the Sun is overhead and high.) and surroundings, I have reached an estimate on the tonal ranges, and therefore the probable colours. I must point out though, there is no way I can be absolutely certain!
First, the darker colour on the cowling; although it is possible that this could be one of the greys, its tonal range suggests that it would more than likely be close to RLM 75, the mid-tone grey. BUT, if this were so, then the other colours, yet to be discussed, would have to appear in a totally different 'shade' compared to the way they do appear.
I therefore believe that the colour is a mid to dark green, probably RLM 83 or close. It is possible, although unlikely, that it could be RLM 02.
Moving down the scale; as we know that orthochromatic film is sensitive to the blue end of the spectrum, the next stage towards that end of the spectrum moves away from the greens, towards the blues and violets. Therefore, greys, being within the 'blue group', will register well, and I believe the next 'dark' shade is a grey. The tonal quality suggests a mid grey, and I believe that this would be RLM 75, Mittlegrau.
That leaves the base colour.
As RLM 65 Hellblau is light in tone, on ortho film, it would register as almost white. However, as the 'other' light blue tone, RLM 76 is a grey blue, the black element, although minimal, would render this ever so slightly darker, as it appears in the pictures. I therefore believe that the base colour, on fuselage and undersurfaces, is RLM76.
The apparent 'Lighter' colours on the uppersurface of the wings is totally in line with the qualities and reaction of ortho film, and is what should be expected when using this film in the lighting conditions prevailing at the time. [Bear in mind, what we are all viewing are reproductions, and the quality, density and contrast of the original is not known; neither is the quality of the dot percentage, highlight and shadow, and of course mid-tone, on the halftone printed pages from which the copies we see have been taken from.]
Having studied the overall tonal balance, I believe that the colours on the wing top surfaces are the same as those on the upper fuselage, i.e. green and grey.
Finally, the mottle. Although fairly light in its application, and again allowing for the quality of the original pictures and the subsequent reproductions, there is mottle present. It is not possible to be absolutely certain as to the colouring of this, but I would suggest that the colours used are the same green and grey, with the green predominant, paricularly on the fin.
So, to summarise.
Although of course it is not possible to be 100% certain, I believe that this aircraft's camouflage colours consist of RLM 76 Weiisblau/Hellgrau, with a soft disruptive pattern of Green, probably RLM83, and Grey, RLM 75, on the upper surfaces of wings and tailplane, and on the cowling and spine. There is also a very light mottle of these two colours on the fuselage sides, with an overspray, possibly of RLM76, on the starboard side of the upper engine cowling.
I hope this is of help to those concerned and please, no arguments about filtration, exposures etc!
If anyone disagrees with my analysis, fine; by all means state your case and opinion, but don't expect me to counter with a defensive argument. That is not the reason I am a member of this forum, and I do not see the point of toing and froing on relatively minor technicalities, just for the h*ll of it!
I spent over ten years being involved in this branch of photography, in a professional capacity, with a major multi-national manufacturer, and I have no need to entertain petty arguments; I've stated my opinion, which can be accepted or not, as the case may be!
Cheers,
Terry.

 

[Catch22]

Wow Terry, thank you VERY much for taking the time to do this analysis! Very imformative and helpful!Thankfully we were along the same lines in regards to colours, as I just returned from buying more of them, though I have various amounts of others laying around . So you believe that the inside of the crosses are dark gray, as opposed to the green?

Thanks again Terry!

 

[Airframes]

Glad to help mate! Yep, I reckon the crosses are dark grey; check out the 'colour' against the head rest fairing. Also, it would be in line with a previous known practice of 'low viz' grey crosses, and why use green, if grey or black is available, unless as a hurried field application, and they don't look hurredly applied. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. If you need grey crosses with solid white outlines, I've got some which I think are the correct size; I'll measure them against my Tamiya kit.

 

[Catch22]

I think I'm just going to cut the black out of the crosses that came with mine, and I'm going to have a peek at my spares box, though I may take you up on your offer sir. Thanks!

 

[Wayne Little]

Thanks for that analysis Terry, now I hope others will have a little bit better understanding of 'reading' a B/W photo. and the many things that affect the image we are actually viewing.

I would only alter one thing...the colour in the fuselage cross would be the darker camo colour, RLM 83 rather than grey, the darker colour of the upper fuselage is carried down into the cross.

will have to chat further....later of to do some shopping...

 

[Catch22]

What's odd about this, is that in the nose front shot, the cross colour seems to match the nose quite closely, but in the port-side shot, it looks like Terry's thoughts are correct. It could go either way.

 

[Airframes]

I agree, which is why I used the grey of the roll-bar of the head armour as the benchmark. Although Wayne is very possibly correct, I still think that the crosses are grey beause A) There is a precedent. B) What I've stated about the tone, and C) I can't remember where, but I feel sure I saw/read somewhere not long ago, that previous suspicions/thoughts about the existance of green crosses had been disproven.
But, as I say, Wayne could be right - I have no way of proving my suspicion/analysis.
Now I know why I've avoided this period of Luftwaffe history! What a b****y minefield!
The strange thing is, the period is a time when it would have been relatively easy to record most, if not all of the details that modellers, artists and historians require today! But then, there were other pressing matters to attend to. Having said that, in the earlier war years, there appear to have been much more detailed Intelligence and crash reports submitted. Ah, Well!

 

[Lucky13]

Terry, There's a pint on the tap for you!

 

[Wayne Little]

Hey I can just as easily be wrong,... but most Luftwaffe fighters that had the white bordered fuselage crosses and were filled in with a camo colour, used the darker of the two Primary colours.

Now, doing some further reading the JaPo guys say that the early 600.XXX series aircraft may well have been 83/75/76......

In Jerry Crandall's excellent Dora Vol 1 there is a spanner in the works W.Nr.600150 clearly is in 74/75/76 Greys as confirmed by colour images from a film.

Now I will go out on a limb here and say I think the Engine was originally a Junkers supplied 83/76 with the Greys mottled over it, 'cause I see portions of Dark green in the mottle.

So on that basis I still think our subject's engine is 83/76 and our opinions about 83/75 camo is a reasonable deduction.

 

[Catch22]

Alright Wayne, sounds good. I guess it's up to me then as to what colour I want to do, as I may try to spray today.

And for the engine, it's what we decided and the mottling on it is the Grauviolett?

 

[Wayne Little]

In my opinion....more likely Grey 75, yes, with the colour shots of 600150 in the Greys it is obvious that they had this colour available in their stocks and used it.

 

[Catch22]

Well Gents, I sprayed the Reich Bands today, but some of the yellow bled through and ruined the white, so I have to re-spray that, but that shall be tomorrow. I should also be able to get at least the Lichtblau on as well tomorrow, and I should really be done painting by Wednesday or Thursday if the weather stays reasonable.

One other question: Would you guys say the spinner and blades were Schwarzgrün or black? It seems to me more were painted Schwarzgrün than black.

 

[Wayne Little]

The prop blades were certainly RLM70 Black Green, while the spinner surely looks the same, but it was Black with the white spiral....

 

[Catch22]

Thanks Wayne!

 

[Wayne Little]

You're welcome, now lets see some more pics!

 

[Lucky13]

D*mn straight mate! More pics please....!8)

 

[Airframes]

Pics! Where's the pics!