Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Good info Antoni.
RAF P-51 Mustang Mk1A
- Thread starter javlin
- Start date
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If you are after a primer on RAF Allison engined Mustangs, this recent thread over at Britmodeller has some good reference material and information.
A Few Mustang Mk.i Questions - Britmodeller.com
Also the following might be of interest.
RAF Allison-Powered Mustangs - Cybermodeler Online
The armament on the three Allison engined marks of Mustangs used by the RAF were not interchangeable. The aircraft were fitted with one type of armament fit that was not interchangeable between marks. The wing designs and armament mounts precluded any swapping, similarly the nose mounted MGs of the Mk.I could not be fitted into the Mk.IA or Mk.II as ancillary equipment was fitted into the space left by the removal of the MGs on those marks.
For the Mk.I, normal camera when fitted was a single F.24 oblique fitted immediately behind the pilot's head in the cockpit. A limited number of Mk.Is had a vertical camera fitted in the rear fuselage between the radiator outlet and the tail wheel. For the MkIA, again the oblique camera behind the cockpit and a greater percentage with the vertical camera. For the Mk.II a few more camera installations were developed and used. But basically the Mk.II had the oblique mount as standard and by late 1944 the majority had the vertical mount as well. A number were modified to carry a dual oblique mount, with two F.24 cameras immediately behind the cockpit - it was a tight fit. A very limited number, a handful of Mk.IIs were especially fitted with a five camera rig - the two obliques behind the cockpit, a further two obliques mounted in the rear fuselage (not the same as the set up on the Mk.IIIs, but higher in the rear fuselage) and one vertical , in early 1945. The Tac/R Mustangs, which is what they were primarily used for, were not fitted with underwing stores carriers - the Mk.IIs had the wing mounting point but the RAF did not fit and use the stores carrier on theirs.
The photo of Mustang Mk.II FR900 M is scanned from Volume 4 of 2TAF by Shores and Thomas. The photo was reproduced in 2TAF with my permission as were a number of my other original photos in other volumes of that series.
Also AM and Hobbycraft, despite being provided with correct information before their releases, got the details of their subject aircraft wrong as shown on their instructions and box art. Mustang Mk.IA FD472 'M' was serving with No.268 Squadron, not No.168 Squadron in 1944 - something originally published back in the 1970s and perpetuated since. Also the subject aircraft with the Malcolm Hood and coded FD465 'N' is not listed as having served operationally with any RAF unit - likely again a continuation of an old piece of incorrect research, misreading the serial on a photo or similar.
A word of caution, the camera and mount pictured a few pages back in this thread is a representation of the USAAF type mount, not the RAF one, and a rather inaccurate museum representation at that. If you go onto the Imperial War Museum website, into their photo collections search and search under "Mustang" it will bring up a number of photos of RAF Allison Mustangs, and also the RAF style cameras and mounts.
HTH
Regards,
A Few Mustang Mk.i Questions - Britmodeller.com
Also the following might be of interest.
RAF Allison-Powered Mustangs - Cybermodeler Online
The armament on the three Allison engined marks of Mustangs used by the RAF were not interchangeable. The aircraft were fitted with one type of armament fit that was not interchangeable between marks. The wing designs and armament mounts precluded any swapping, similarly the nose mounted MGs of the Mk.I could not be fitted into the Mk.IA or Mk.II as ancillary equipment was fitted into the space left by the removal of the MGs on those marks.
For the Mk.I, normal camera when fitted was a single F.24 oblique fitted immediately behind the pilot's head in the cockpit. A limited number of Mk.Is had a vertical camera fitted in the rear fuselage between the radiator outlet and the tail wheel. For the MkIA, again the oblique camera behind the cockpit and a greater percentage with the vertical camera. For the Mk.II a few more camera installations were developed and used. But basically the Mk.II had the oblique mount as standard and by late 1944 the majority had the vertical mount as well. A number were modified to carry a dual oblique mount, with two F.24 cameras immediately behind the cockpit - it was a tight fit. A very limited number, a handful of Mk.IIs were especially fitted with a five camera rig - the two obliques behind the cockpit, a further two obliques mounted in the rear fuselage (not the same as the set up on the Mk.IIIs, but higher in the rear fuselage) and one vertical , in early 1945. The Tac/R Mustangs, which is what they were primarily used for, were not fitted with underwing stores carriers - the Mk.IIs had the wing mounting point but the RAF did not fit and use the stores carrier on theirs.
The photo of Mustang Mk.II FR900 M is scanned from Volume 4 of 2TAF by Shores and Thomas. The photo was reproduced in 2TAF with my permission as were a number of my other original photos in other volumes of that series.
Also AM and Hobbycraft, despite being provided with correct information before their releases, got the details of their subject aircraft wrong as shown on their instructions and box art. Mustang Mk.IA FD472 'M' was serving with No.268 Squadron, not No.168 Squadron in 1944 - something originally published back in the 1970s and perpetuated since. Also the subject aircraft with the Malcolm Hood and coded FD465 'N' is not listed as having served operationally with any RAF unit - likely again a continuation of an old piece of incorrect research, misreading the serial on a photo or similar.
A word of caution, the camera and mount pictured a few pages back in this thread is a representation of the USAAF type mount, not the RAF one, and a rather inaccurate museum representation at that. If you go onto the Imperial War Museum website, into their photo collections search and search under "Mustang" it will bring up a number of photos of RAF Allison Mustangs, and also the RAF style cameras and mounts.
HTH
Regards,
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #63
Colin I appreciate very much the input.I read the deal you had over at Cybermodel and will read the 5 pages over at BritModeler as time permits. So I would need to come up with another camera mount to make no.588 correct then?for a conversion to a MKII.To remove the cannons it appears to be an ever so slight buldge was left?Again thanks for the input Colin.Cheers Kevin
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Excellent information ! If I'd seen this three hours ago, I could have made an accurate mount for the MkIII I'm building! No problem though, as most of the F.24 camera on my model will only be seen as a shape under the open 'Malcolm' hood.
This thread, and your info, have got me wanting to do a Mki or MkIA now, something I've wanted to do for many years.
Thanks again.
This thread, and your info, have got me wanting to do a Mki or MkIA now, something I've wanted to do for many years.
Thanks again.
Kevin,
To do a Mustang Mk.II your best bet is to get the AM P-51A kit in 1/48th or the Hobbycraft P-51A kit in 1/32nd. Besides the armament, there were a number of other detail changes between the Mk.I, Mk.IA and the Mk.II. Most notable was the broader air intake above the engine cowling and a different shape to the below fuselage radiator intake for the P-51A/Mk.II.
In 1/48th, using the ICM P-51A kit (which comes with the incorrect thinner air intake of the earlier marks), combined with the Ultracast Mustang Mk.I resin conversion set is a good starter. Then the AM Mustang Mk.IA is a starting point for that mark, as is the P-51A kit for the Mk.II.
In 1/32nd the Hobbycraft Mustang Mk.IA kit again is a good starting point for that mark, and their P-51A is a good starting point for a Mk.II. There is a hope the Hobbycraft were going to retool for a Mk.I as a future release, they were provided all the relevant and correct reference material, as was AM some years back.
The Cybermodeller article reference above give some of the key differences for the RAF versions as distinct to the US versions provided 'out of the box' by both AM and Hobbycraft.
Regards,
Colin
To do a Mustang Mk.II your best bet is to get the AM P-51A kit in 1/48th or the Hobbycraft P-51A kit in 1/32nd. Besides the armament, there were a number of other detail changes between the Mk.I, Mk.IA and the Mk.II. Most notable was the broader air intake above the engine cowling and a different shape to the below fuselage radiator intake for the P-51A/Mk.II.
In 1/48th, using the ICM P-51A kit (which comes with the incorrect thinner air intake of the earlier marks), combined with the Ultracast Mustang Mk.I resin conversion set is a good starter. Then the AM Mustang Mk.IA is a starting point for that mark, as is the P-51A kit for the Mk.II.
In 1/32nd the Hobbycraft Mustang Mk.IA kit again is a good starting point for that mark, and their P-51A is a good starting point for a Mk.II. There is a hope the Hobbycraft were going to retool for a Mk.I as a future release, they were provided all the relevant and correct reference material, as was AM some years back.
The Cybermodeller article reference above give some of the key differences for the RAF versions as distinct to the US versions provided 'out of the box' by both AM and Hobbycraft.
Regards,
Colin
- Thread starter
- #66
- Thread starter
- #67
Well Colin I just read through most of the thread at Britmodler and now I am convinced I am going to be keeping this very basic instead and save the guns for something else.I never would of thought that so many variances would show up so quick between the MK1,MK1a and the MKII's enough to make me shake the old head.I also had totally forgotten about the work Dave was doing on his HC kit over at LSP that camera is something else
.I really like the look of the MG's under the chin but that photo of the cannons from the bottom is most impressive also.Cheers and thanks again for the insight Colin.Regards Kevin
.I really like the look of the MG's under the chin but that photo of the cannons from the bottom is most impressive also.Cheers and thanks again for the insight Colin.Regards Kevin
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Your P-51s looking good Kevin.
- Thread starter
- #71
Thks Bemay and Vic.I have made the new barrels for the cannons from brass and have the invasion stripes painted.This plane has has been a tough build from an enthusiasm perspective.The other night before I finally got the stripes right I seriously thought of breaking out the .22 and plugging a hole in her.
Cheers
Cheers
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Very cool, and I love the barrels!
- Thread starter
- #73
Things like that and just available time made me stick with a mostly OOB,Thks for the info though.I have gotten some paint on the plane though just trying to decide if Malcolm Hood or not?The barrels are simple enough brass tube hollowed out abit more with tape bundled on the ends.The ones that were in the kit were grossly exaggerated.Cheers
Attachments
Good on ya Kevin, looks good mate...
cracking job Kevin
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Great Kevin, love the gun barrels their a nice touch.
- Thread starter
- #78
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Looking good Kevin. Is the camouflage pattern on the wings correct?
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