thats the only picture i found so where the profiles came from i dont know !!!!
will keep looking though
will keep looking though
**** DONE 1/48 Tamiya Me 262 A-2 Heavy Hitters Group Build
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- #42
Crimea_River
Marshal
Great story Paul! Thanks for taking the time to copy it out.
So I read on another forum here ULTRA - 3 - The Luftwaffe Archives Records Reference Group in a post by a chap named David E. Brown his theory on the colour scheme for White Y. With thanks to the author, I quote:
"KG 51 had a great number of Me 262s operational from the summer of 1944. It was the preferred destination for the Me 262 as this was a bomber unit (Kommando Schenk – KG 51) and so had the highest priority for the new jets. A great number of these came from the front end of the 170000 Werknummerseries as can be noted in Dan O'Connell's Werknummerlist on the Stormbirds site (STORMBIRDS.COM - Luftwaffe Resources). Indeed, a close examination of one of the Classic photos shows a Werknummer in the same size, style and position as other 170000-series aircraft on the aircraft's starboard fin. While it is not readable, the Werknummer position and style, layout of the underlying faded two-tone camouflage scheme and its grey tone in the images, the style of national and unit code markings together suggest that it was an early production 170000 Werknummerseries aircraft originally painted in the grey 74/75/76 scheme prior to the introduction of the late-war 'green/brown' colours in July 1944.
Having survived into 1945, "White Y" was given an overall (top and sides) meandering and dotted overspray of probably 81 Braunviolett to tone down the rather light grey appearance. This scheme and colour was applied to many nightfighters (Ju 88 G-1/6, Bf 110 G-4 and a few Me 262 B-1a's) during the last months of the war to help conceal them on the ground. Colour photos of such aircraft reveal that the choice colour was invariably 81" [Bold red Mine]."The camouflage pattern is indicative of the type applied at the unit level. It is highly probably that the colour 81 would also appear on the wing upper surfaces in a similar pattern to that on the fuselage sides and top. This dark over light 81/74/75 pattern and scheme would certainly afford significant concealment value for the late winter conditions (dominantly bare deciduous trees, snow-covered ground, etc).
It is instructive to note that photos of other KG 54 aircraft during the same period wore a reverse pattern (light over dark) on all upper surfaces. The application of a white welle/mäander (wave/meander) pattern was necessitated by the original darker all-green 83 or 81/82 upper surface scheme."
Well this is an interesting twist as the Tamiya profile calls up an 82/83/76 scheme with the squiggles in 83 over the lighter 82. All other profiles I've seen on the KG 51 262's use the same colours, albeit in different fashions, the first two machines in Rochie's post being a good example of patches of 83 over 82.
Anyone out there agree with Mr. Brown or have other insight into this machine? Maybe I should switch to Red B?!
So I read on another forum here ULTRA - 3 - The Luftwaffe Archives Records Reference Group in a post by a chap named David E. Brown his theory on the colour scheme for White Y. With thanks to the author, I quote:
"KG 51 had a great number of Me 262s operational from the summer of 1944. It was the preferred destination for the Me 262 as this was a bomber unit (Kommando Schenk – KG 51) and so had the highest priority for the new jets. A great number of these came from the front end of the 170000 Werknummerseries as can be noted in Dan O'Connell's Werknummerlist on the Stormbirds site (STORMBIRDS.COM - Luftwaffe Resources). Indeed, a close examination of one of the Classic photos shows a Werknummer in the same size, style and position as other 170000-series aircraft on the aircraft's starboard fin. While it is not readable, the Werknummer position and style, layout of the underlying faded two-tone camouflage scheme and its grey tone in the images, the style of national and unit code markings together suggest that it was an early production 170000 Werknummerseries aircraft originally painted in the grey 74/75/76 scheme prior to the introduction of the late-war 'green/brown' colours in July 1944.
Having survived into 1945, "White Y" was given an overall (top and sides) meandering and dotted overspray of probably 81 Braunviolett to tone down the rather light grey appearance. This scheme and colour was applied to many nightfighters (Ju 88 G-1/6, Bf 110 G-4 and a few Me 262 B-1a's) during the last months of the war to help conceal them on the ground. Colour photos of such aircraft reveal that the choice colour was invariably 81" [Bold red Mine]."The camouflage pattern is indicative of the type applied at the unit level. It is highly probably that the colour 81 would also appear on the wing upper surfaces in a similar pattern to that on the fuselage sides and top. This dark over light 81/74/75 pattern and scheme would certainly afford significant concealment value for the late winter conditions (dominantly bare deciduous trees, snow-covered ground, etc).
It is instructive to note that photos of other KG 54 aircraft during the same period wore a reverse pattern (light over dark) on all upper surfaces. The application of a white welle/mäander (wave/meander) pattern was necessitated by the original darker all-green 83 or 81/82 upper surface scheme."
Well this is an interesting twist as the Tamiya profile calls up an 82/83/76 scheme with the squiggles in 83 over the lighter 82. All other profiles I've seen on the KG 51 262's use the same colours, albeit in different fashions, the first two machines in Rochie's post being a good example of patches of 83 over 82.
Anyone out there agree with Mr. Brown or have other insight into this machine? Maybe I should switch to Red B?!
David E Brown is a respected Luftwaffe researcher, he certainly puts forward a fair and reasonable assumption re the colours.....after all the 170000 series was the early model and most definitely painted in 74/75/76 colours. See my White 2 W.Nr 170071..!!
He may well be correct but it also may be that the aircraft WAS repainted in Greens 81/82 or 82/83 at a later date...?
He may well be correct but it also may be that the aircraft WAS repainted in Greens 81/82 or 82/83 at a later date...?
- Thread starter
- #44
Crimea_River
Marshal
If only I had a time machine.....
Maximowitz
Tech Sergeant
- Thread starter
- #46
Crimea_River
Marshal
Yeah, kinda like the idea of braun-violet squiggles over 74/75. Or would that be the Dunkelgrun or Olivbraun version of RLM 81? Damn, where's that camcorder....
Last night I started on the instrument panel, adding the decal instruments after cutting them out individually a-la Wayne Little. One decal ripped but I managed to get the halves together - almost but close enough. Got half way and went to bed cross-eyed.
Will try to finish tonight and send some pics after the solvaset dries and Future is applied. Thanks for the tip Wayne!
Last night I started on the instrument panel, adding the decal instruments after cutting them out individually a-la Wayne Little. One decal ripped but I managed to get the halves together - almost but close enough. Got half way and went to bed cross-eyed.
Will try to finish tonight and send some pics after the solvaset dries and Future is applied. Thanks for the tip Wayne!
Maximowitz
Tech Sergeant
Looking forward to watching this one Andy. Best of luck and un-cross those eyes!
- Thread starter
- #48
Crimea_River
Marshal
Got the rest on and can still type. Waiting for the solvaset to dry overnight, then a dab of Future on each. Film at 11!
You're Welcome!....When you do the dials you must remember, you should not rush it and you should not try to do them all in one sitting!!! Always do one high, one low or left then right side so you can do a few at a time ...move on to something else then return to do more once you are sure they are set. Last thing you want to do is destroy one while applying another.
Hope it goes well man!
Actually lke the idea of the 81 over the 74/75, would look real nice if you can pull it off!
- Thread starter
- #50
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks Wayne, that's exactly what I did. I did the dials over two evenings and worked on other areas of the cockpit as well. Photos soon.
- Thread starter
- #51
Crimea_River
Marshal
OK, a couple of progress shots. I need to apologize for the quality of these pics. I'm now convinced that I'll need to invest in a macro lens for my SLR but anyway it's the best I can do for now.
Photo 1 shows the cockpit tub and bulkheads awaiting assembly. There's a thin wash of black to accentuate the highlights and simulate dirt/grease here as these areas are within the wheel wells. Will also check some references to possibly drill out the apparent holes in the bulkheads and add some hoses and wiring. I have a hard time finding a balance between building OOB and going nuts on detail.
Photo 2 shows annother view of the cockpit tub and the instrument panel. Unfortunately this is as close as I could get. The panel uses the kit-provided decals which I cut out individually and applied over the last two nights. As Wayne points out, this can't be rushed. A dot of Future is applied to each dial to seal it and simulate the glass. The dial details are there but they're hard to see at this distance. A light aluminum dry brush was finally applied to the panel edges, a slight black wash applied in shadow areas under the raised panel and various knobs were picked out in black, silver and red.
I may bite the bullet and get a lens this weekend and retake some of these. Thanks for your continued interest. Much more to come but I plan to spend a bit of time on my Wespe Bf-110 this weekend as well as make some kitchen drawer inserts. Busy times!
Photo 1 shows the cockpit tub and bulkheads awaiting assembly. There's a thin wash of black to accentuate the highlights and simulate dirt/grease here as these areas are within the wheel wells. Will also check some references to possibly drill out the apparent holes in the bulkheads and add some hoses and wiring. I have a hard time finding a balance between building OOB and going nuts on detail.
Photo 2 shows annother view of the cockpit tub and the instrument panel. Unfortunately this is as close as I could get. The panel uses the kit-provided decals which I cut out individually and applied over the last two nights. As Wayne points out, this can't be rushed. A dot of Future is applied to each dial to seal it and simulate the glass. The dial details are there but they're hard to see at this distance. A light aluminum dry brush was finally applied to the panel edges, a slight black wash applied in shadow areas under the raised panel and various knobs were picked out in black, silver and red.
I may bite the bullet and get a lens this weekend and retake some of these. Thanks for your continued interest. Much more to come but I plan to spend a bit of time on my Wespe Bf-110 this weekend as well as make some kitchen drawer inserts. Busy times!
Attachments
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Outstanding!
Vic Balshaw
Major General
That's lovely work Andy
N-I-C-E !
B-17engineer
Colonel
Awesome Andy!
Heinz
Captain
Looking great
109ROAMING
2nd Lieutenant
With the guys
- Thread starter
- #58
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks everyone. Also, please, constructive criticism is most welcome. I'm always looking to improve.
For the model, that is. Photography is off limits!
For the model, that is. Photography is off limits!
looks great
DBII
Senior Master Sergeant
nice work.
DBII
DBII
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